CKSportsFan

Rather have a three team district with teams that make sense than a four team with one team who is the black swan. No rivalry. No history. Travel is a bust (both home and away). In four classes, wasn't much of an issue. With six classes, it's a huge problem. The current Meade-Central Hardin-Muhlenberg district is like that because: - North Hardin shrank (for reasons only Hardin County Schools can explain) - John Hardin shrank (see above) - Nelson County split - Shelby County split - Greenwood split All five of the above schools (NH, JH, Nelson, Shelby, Greenwood) have been in the Meade-Central Hardin district in the past. None are there currently (although NH will be back next year). That meant Muhlenberg (haul, different time zone, no ties to Central Hardin period) or Ohio (same) had to be stuck with Central Hardin/Meade just to get to three. Couldn't put both, because then Western Kentucky would have had only three (and further travel for whoever took last spot). There was no good candidate to put with Meade/Central Hardin. Pulling a school out of Louisville or NKY or Lexington wasn't an option. Thus you get a three team district which makes sense except for first round of playoffs as opposed to a four team district where one game each week leaves two teams ticked (one for having to travel a long way, the other for making little money off the gate).

1) More money for KHSAA (ticket prices go up in postseason and KHSAA gets a cut). 2) More FOOTBALLL!!!!!!1!!!1!!!! (as some internet fans/coaches like to argue) 3) More sense of achievement (hey, you "qualified" for the playoffs!). 4) Gives teams/coaches chances to pad their record/stats. I can't wait til a four seed (from a four-team district) just decides to forfeit a first-round playoff game two hours away. Not worth it at that point. Not for the travel/financial aspect. Not for the health aspect (being out in the cold for two hours when you know the outcome). Not for the safety aspect for either team (serious injury; plus what if there is a wreck going to/from a blowout). And believe it or not, first-round forfeits happens in other states EVERY year. If a four seed in a four-team district does it, you CAN'T argue they took a spot away from another team, because there are no spots and no teams to be concerned about. And when the cons outweigh the pros, hard to argue with their decision (cross thread: It was STILL the right thing for 12-player Fort Knox to forfeit at then-undefeated DeSales in a mandatory district game).

E'town. - Home against 4-Wayne (last year's state runner-up, granted Wayne is down) - Road against 1-Corbin (No. 1 seed, ranked in top-10, long road trip) - Road against 1-Louisville Central or 2-Bell County (E'town hasn't fared well against either - Road against 1-South Warren (unbeaten, SW has crushed E'town twice in two years) - Final against 1-Belfry (rematch of their state final a few years ago when E'town couldn't win when it had three FBS players in QB Chris Todd, TE/Lineman Zipp Duncan and OL/DE Brandon Deaderick).

1) No one else's postseason cuts into the start of another season's sport. Football is still going on (finals) during regular-season basketball's opening week. Soccer and Volleyball, which allow everyone, are already done and have been done for a few weeks at that point. 2) To go along with 1, no one else's postseason lasts five weeks. Usually three at most. Two in some cases (individual sports). 3) Football is the ONLY sport where you are NOT knocked out by a district rival right out of the gate.They tried that a few years ago and football coaches HATED having intra-district play for rounds one and 2 (not see a different district til round 3). 4) Playoffs in every other sport don't involve near the travel. When Fort Knox gets beat in basketball, it's a 20-minute drive for a running clock. 20-minute drive to get run ruled in baseball/softball, 20-minute drive to get 10-goaled in soccer. Put FK in the football playoffs and they're going 1-2 HOURS to get crushed in the cold. 5) To go along with five, teams lose money in the first round in football. If you're the visiting team, you gotta pay for gas for food for what could be your longest road trip of the season. If you're the home team, the visiting team ain't bringing anyone if they're a 0-10/1-9, 2-8 four seed. And your own fans probably won't show up because it's a laugher, it's cold and basketball is on (scrimmages, although UK home basketball opener is on a Friday night during second week of playoffs). 6) No other sport (with the exception of 6-A) do you have as much home-field advantage as you do in football. Six teams in football might not have to leave home until the very last game. In other sports, you're lucky to home field for the district tourney. Even less for the region. 1-in-2 to host a state first-round game in soccer, but your final three games are at neutral sites. Your final four games (sweet 16, elite 8, final four, championship) in baseball/softball, basketball, volleyball are all at neutral sites. 7) Every other team sport has random draw for the final three rounds, and every sport but soccer and football have them for final four rounds. Playoffs become old and tiresome in football. BG vs. JH in final four? Yeah, like we haven't seen that before. 6-A is the only one that switches it up even a little, but even then it gets old if you're opposite the Louisville super district. 8) No other sport makes a big deal about "making" the playoffs. In football, many teams don't "make" it at all.I've seen football coaches' resumes talk about playoff appearances and postseason wins. In other sports, they're referring to what you do at State.

Know I'm revisiting this later, but you might want to check out how E'town closed the season. Beat Henry County (7-3), 35-7 (Henry season worsts for points allowed, points scored and difference). Beat Glasgow (7-3), 42-0 (believed to be first running-clock loss in Glasgow's history). Glasgow has a D-I running back (Marquez Trigg, committed to WKU). Had 18 yards on 18 carries. Zero carries more than 5 yards. Henry beat Elizabethtown last year at Henry, while Glasgow blasted E'town last year. Also the only 3-A program to keep South Warren under 40. E'town's quietly picking up steam.

FRIDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL UPDATE: Elizabethtown 42, Glasgow 0 (11/01) | TheNewsEnterprise.com Elizabethtown shuts out Glasgow, 42-0 - Glasgow Daily Times: Sports

2014 Football District Standings | Kentucky High School Athletic Association Class 6A, District 1 Overall District (1/2)McCracken County 7 - 1 2 - 0 (2/1)Henderson County 4 - 4 2 - 0 (3/4)Marshall County 2 - 6 0 - 2 (4/3)Daviess County 2 - 6 0 - 2 Class 6A, District 4 Overall District (1)Male 8 - 0 2 - 0 (2)St. Xavier 6 - 3 2 - 1 (3)Trinity (Louisville) 5 - 4 1 - 2 (4)DuPont Manual 6 - 2 0 - 2 Class 6A, District 2 Overall District (1)Central Hardin 8 - 0 1 - 0 (2)Meade County 6 - 2 1 - 1 (3)Muhlenberg County 4 - 4 0 - 1 (4)BOONE/CAMPBELL LOSER Class 6A, District 7 Overall District (*)Bryan Station 6 - 2 2 - 0 (*)Scott County 7 - 1 1 - 1 (*)Henry Clay 6 - 2 1 - 1 (*)Paul Laurence Dunbar 3 - 5 0 - 2 Class 6A, District 3 Overall District (*)Butler 5 - 2 2 - 0 (*)Seneca 5 - 3 1 - 1 (*)Pleasure Ridge Park 4 - 4 1 - 1 (*)Southern 2 - 6 0 - 2 Class 6A, District 5 Overall District (*)Ballard 5 - 3 2 - 0 (*)Fern Creek 4 - 3 1 - 1 (*)Oldham County 2 - 6 1 - 1 (*)Eastern 2 - 6 0 - 2 Class 6A, District 6 Overall District (*)Dixie Heights 7 - 1 3 - 0 (*)Simon Kenton 8 - 1 3 - 1 (*)Ryle 4 - 5 2 - 1 (*)Campbell County 4 - 4 0 - 3 (*)Boone County 1 - 7 0 - 3 Class 6A, District 8 Overall District (*)Lafayette 6 - 3 2 - 0 (*)George Rogers Clark 3 - 5 1 - 1 (*)Madison Central 3 - 6 1 - 1 (*)Tates Creek 3 - 6 0 - 2 In Bracket Order: First Number is District, Second Number is seed TOP BRACKET, REGION 1 -- 1-1 4-4 --- 4-2 1-3 --- 1-2 4-3 --- 4-1 1-4 --- TOP BRACKET, REGION 2 --- 2-1 7-4 --- 7-2 2-3 --- 2-2 7-3 7-1 6-5 --- BOTTOM BRACKET, REGION 3 --- 3-1 5-4 5-2 3-3 3-2 5-3 5-1 3-4 --- BOTTOM BRACKET, REGION 4 --- 6-1 8-4 --- 8-2 6-3 --- 6-2 8-3 --- 8-1 6-4 ---

Went FROM: 21-74 (Meade vs. Dunbar) 72-23 (Bryan Station vs. Muhlenberg) 22-73 (Central Hardin vs. Henry Clay) 71-65 (Scott County vs. Boone takes No. 4 spot per rules as NKY 5 as there is no 2-4) TO (AFTER LAST NIGHT): 21-74 (Central Hardin vs. Dunbar) 72-23 (Scott County vs. Muhlenberg) 22-73 (Meade County vs. Henry Clay) 71-65 (Bryan Station vs. Boone takes No. 4 spot per rules as NKY 5 as there is no 2-4)

Add up the total number of wins by the top FOUR teams you beat NOT in the tiebreaker. http://khsaa.org/handbook/competitionrules/fbcompetitionrules.pdf b) TIE-BREAKER (more than two teams). Should three or more teams tie for the a district position based upon the win-loss record, the position shall be determined by the following: i) If one of the teams has defeated each of the other teams tied in games contested between them, that team shall be declared to hold the highest position, and the winner of the game between the remaining teams (if less than four) shall be declared the second highest position. In the event of more than three teams being tied, where one has defeated each of the tied teams, that team shall be declared the highest position, and the tie-breaking procedure shall be re-applied for the remaining tied teams. ii) If the tie remains, each team tied for the position shall receive one point for each game won by any four of their defeated opponents in all games, except for the games played between any two of the tied teams. All games played shall be counted in applying the tie-breaking procedure, including out of state games, with the exception that a defeated school may be counted only once in the procedure regardless of the number of games played against that particular school. Teams awarded forfeit victories (whether or not a forfeit fee is paid) may count the defeated opponents of the forfeiting team, provided the game was not replaced on the schedule. iii) If the tie remains after application of provision (ii), an additional defeated opponent’s wins will be added to the point total for each team until the tie is broken and the winner of the tied position declared, or until all games are exhausted. iv) If the tie for the position involves only three teams, and the application of (ii) and (iii) results in one team being declared the winner of the tied position based on point totals, the highest point total from the application of (ii) and (iii) between the two remaining tied teams shall be declared to hold the next position. v) If the tie for the championship involves more than three teams, and the application of (ii) and (iii) results in one team being declared the winner of the tied position based on point totals, the procedure shall then be re-applied to determine the next position. vi) If the tie for the position involves more than three teams, and the application of (ii) and (iii) results in two teams remaining tied for the position based on points, the head to head game played between them shall break the tie, and head to head competition will break any remaining ties. vii) If a tie results after application of all provisions of the above plan, the tie shall be broken by the Commissioner.

Not letting an announcer point out - 2 or 3 - Number of fouls on team - Number of fouls on player Aren't useful. Fans, coaches and media (radio, tv, papers) rely on those. Easy to lose track when they're not being pointed out (and some scoreboards don't have foul totals, only a bonus button, which may or not work). 2 or 3 is good for close foot on the line plays when you might miss the signal. And I'd argue the type of foul pointed out (over the back, charge, reaching in, block, intentional, flagrant) is useful too so the fans don't start loudly questioning why. Good intent. Horrible execution. We need to put the kibosh on high school announcers becoming like those in the NBA or College, like Louisville "THREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DEEEEEEEEEEAN" if you remember Tyquan Dean or "THREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SEES-CO" for Francisco Garcia. And I grew up a Louisville fan, but I could easily why that would drive rivals bonkers.

NOT certain the KHSAA bylaws which keep KHSAA teams from playing non-KHSAA teams (say Wesley Christian trying to play Hazard or North Hardin Christian trying to play Elizabethtown) cover the middle school level. Yet. Maybe it does. Don't know. That being said, with the KHSAA overtaking middle schools, it's only a matter of time for it to be a factor. I liked playing basketball in HS. Wasn't good enough to make the varsity team (at a school with a then-enrollment of 2,000). Played church ball (with many other kids from my same HS, although we attended separate churches). Doesn't mean we could, or should, have been allowed to play the same HS varsity or any HS team in our area, though.

Litkenhous is football and basketball. Never had anything to do with soccer. Maher is very good. Very unbiased. Strength of schedule and previous-year finish are big, but tend to even out toward the end of the year. Think his computer ratings had 14 of the 16 boys' region champs picked last year before the region tournaments even kicked off. Had something like 12-of-15 state tournament games picked correctly, too.

FWIW, those previews have to be sent early in the summer (before it was known if Berry was eligible, or the foreign kid Taylor got, or Morgerson leaving Thomas Nelson for Taylor). Also before Gavin Root left John Hardin for North Hardin and before Elijah Smith was injured playing football (which decimates JH's backcourt outside of Miller). Also, player rankings are done by coaches on a 10-9-8 points scale. Each coach in the region votes for 10 players and ranks them. So how they are ranked are in order of the votes/points they received (not a whole lot of Hardin County bias with only one Hardin County player in the top 8).

http://khsaa.org/football/playoffpairings20112014.pdf 2014 Football District Standings | Kentucky High School Athletic Association District 1 vs. District 4 District 2 vs. District 7 District 3 vs. District 5 District 6 vs. District 8 11-44 (McCracken vs. Manual) 42-13 (St. Xavier vs. Marshall) 12-43 (Henderson vs. Trinity) 41-14 (Male vs. Daviess) 21-74 (Meade vs. Dunbar) 72-23 (Bryan Station vs. Muhlenberg) 22-73 (Central Hardin vs. Henry Clay) 71-65 (Scott County vs. Boone takes No. 4 spot per rules as NKY 5 as there is no 2-4) 31-54 (Butler vs. Oldham) 52-33 (Ballard vs. Seneca) 32-53 (PRP vs. Eastern) 51-34 (Fern Creek vs. Southern) 61-84 (Simon Kenton vs. GRC) 82-63 (Madison Central vs. Ryle) 62-83 (Dixie Heights vs. Tates Creek) 81-64 (Lafayette vs. Campbell)

3,000 is kind of the universally accepted status quo. But could be more if Team A goes on road first (charging Team B more for not returning trip). Also could be more for field rental, if it's homecoming (this case)/senior night, etc. However, district games might be LESS because they're less likely to get cancelled. I've heard of teams pulling out of bowls, scheduling other teams, but very rarely do you hear of a team forfeiting a district contest in football. Not sure what kind of gate DeSales would have cleared Friday. Not sure what they pay for rental/usage. Also not sure if the fact the game would have been uncompetitive or that the weather was lousy. Lots of unknowns. Thankfully/luckily we don't have to deal with this a bunch.

Don't know. Article didn't say, although not sure writer asked the question. Also not sure if schools are required to release that in an open-records request (at least not immediately, they would have 30 days from official filing). Also doesn't look good to actually say what it is, no matter the price. Although DeSales lost a huge gate, appears cheap to accept a forfeit and then get paid for it in high school (this isn't the big-money NCAA Division-I we're talking about). Does DeSales deserve a forfeit fee? Absolutely. I'm being 100 percent serious with that statement. Losing a homecoming gate hurts a lot of programs. Does it do DeSales/FK good to make it known in public? Not sure.

Not online yet, but the print edition of The Gold Standard (weekly paper on Fort Knox) says Fort Knox WILL PLAY Christian Academy-Louisville as scheduled. Also said FK will pay DeSales the required/contracted forfeit fee. When it goes online, it will be here: Sports | fkgoldstandard.com

Usually it's up to the losing team: - Fort Knox hosted E'town in football in 2014. E led in the second quarter. Storms hit. E came back the next day. More storms. FK offered forfeit or E to take score as is (E took the score as is). - Thomas Nelson hosted Spencer County in football in 2014. Spencer County, which was highly favored, took early lead. Storms. Thomas Nelson offered Spencer County some return dates, a forfeit, or take score as is. SC took the shortened win. - E'town hosted North Hardin in girls' soccer (a district game) last week. NH needed to win to get the 3 seed (and avoid top-seeded E'town), a loss made NH the 4 (and forced to play E'town again). E'town takes a 4-0 lead with 5 minutes left in first half. Soccer is supposed to get to halftime to become official. NH chooses to leave and not come back, giving a forfeit or E'town taking a 4-0 win. E was credited with the win and scoreboard says "called at halftime", but the game never made it to halftime (unless teams agreed to playing exactly 35:36 halves). In the Male vs. 1-A case and 1-A is winning, I doubt Male would gladly/easily accept a 3-0 loss. They'd do everything in their power to finish that game or just make it counts as a no contest for both teams.

Some DeSales people can't just let it go. You might not be far off on the forfeit, though. Have yet to hear word out of my FK contacts if this game is still on. Not even sure if FK practiced M-T-W and even if they did, if they had 12/15/?? players. Predictions not really needed for this game, though: - Forfeit - CAL names its score

I have a HUNCH that district contracts are not quite like non-district regular-season games. Because with districts, you can't just pull out of a game and go play somebody else. And you're guaranteed, simply by being in a district, of having a return game the following year. Non-district contracts have to spell all of that out. Bowl-game buyouts/cancellations are huge.. I'd be mildly surprised if there are football district contracts and absolutely floored if the forfeit/cancellation fee for a football district game is in the 3-5 K range. Mainly because like I said earlier, the chances of pulling out of a district game are a lot less than of a team getting crushed by a team in Year One of the contract and getting out of playing in Year Two.

The three-day championships and two-day championships both have merit. Pros for two days: - Don't have to take off work as long - Stadium rental cheaper Pros for three days - Longer celebration - Host city makes more money (people in town longer) - Without early starts, attendance should be better If they were to go to three days, what about a four-games-per-day setup or keep the three-per-day setup? You could have All-Star games (like girls' hoops has at Warren Central that morning Saturday before the finals on Sunday at Diddle) OR you could have third-place games. As far as I know, there is NO RULE stopping a third-place game (basketball used to have them in the NCAA, although I fully understand NCAA and KHSAA are two different beasts). For example: Friday - 1-A vs. 2-A All-Stars at 1 - 1-A championship at 4 - 2-A championship at 7 Saturday - 3-A vs. 4-A All-Stars at 1 - 3-A championship at 4 - 4-A championship at 7 Sunday - 5-A vs. 6-A All-Stars at noon (starting earlier b/c it's Sunday) - 5-A championship at 2:45 (less time between games, again, it's Sunday) - 6-A championship at 5:30 You could go 10-1-4-7 for third, third, first, first in a four-game-per-day setup. Or go Thursday-Sunday with All-Star games on Thursday (and finals F-S-S) or finals T-F-S and All-Star on Sunday. Let's go crazy!

I've seen it done before too. Evangel Christian of Louisville (which no longer has a program, I don't think) against North Hardin. Evangel had a tiny roster (including two girls). Played at North because North Hardin said it couldn't get anyone else to play (had someone cancel on them in July, IIRC). Game barely made it to halftime. Evangel finished with no subs after a couple of injuries (and players playing hurt). It wasn't pretty. Frankly, Evangel would have been better off playing a smaller, struggling school. North Hardin would have been better off taking a bye week and scouting future opponents (especially district ones). I don't think FK going to DeSales last week with 15/12 (after 3 let them know the day of the game they weren't playing) would have been good for either party (as much as DeSales wanted to blow out FK 66-0 on homecoming). Having the game stopped for lack of healthy players would have been far worse than a forfeit. But like I said earlier, Combs has been through this before. FK has played games against good teams (like DeSales) during fall break before. Being committed and playing through fall break, labor day weekend are brought up. But this is what happens when you have a struggling, shrinking, transient program in a district which makes it darn near impossible to have success. Dropping to 1-A in a different district should/could help FK, but it could be years before the program is back to its glory days ... if it survives, that is. Not many programs began the season with just 33 kids (total for all three teams V-JV-F). Not many programs had just two returning players total who were even in the program the prior year. It's an unfortunate situation. But instead of being surprised of what happened this weekend, here's a question: Based upon what people have pointed out about FK's struggles, why are we not surprised a forfeit like this didn't happen sooner than it finally did?

Pretty sure that WAS explained. Combs has been around a while (took over a Lewis County program not many coaches would have; is in his SECOND stint at Knox). I don't think he suddenly "forgot" to tell parents/kids they should try to be there for the WHOLE season. It's Fort Knox's first forfeit in a looooooong while. I don't remember the last time. And Fort Knox has been struggling for a while now. But when you can only get 33 players TOTAL (varsity, jv, freshman) to come out (and some of those had ZERO football experience) while the soccer teams (who haven't been to region since the 90s, so it's not like they're tearing it up) have record numbers, you're kind of at the mercy of any parent/player who wants to play. Regardless if they're there every day or not. It's NOT like Fort Knox is cutting the kids. Unlike many programs, it has to keep the bad apples (or throw some oranges and pears under the apples to make the basket look bigger). Getting rid of the kids/parents who might have/did/could have let them know at the beginning of the season they were taking off fall break would have made it even more difficult to play the games Fort Knox has so far. Simply getting rid of the "uncommitted" might be A solution, but I'm NOT sure it is the BEST solution in this case.

Collins won the state title last year and couldn't beat Central Hardin (which got waxed by Meade twice). From what I can gather: - Collins is down this year - Central Hardin is better this year Taking that into account, IF Central is as good as people think it is, then CH better roll in this one. But CH has a habit of letting some strange teams hang around (North Hardin, Mercer). So who knows. If Collins keeps it close, wouldn't surprise me too much. CH can't get its foot on the pedal (and for a program which has still accomplished little historically compared to John Hardin, Meade, Elizabethtown, Knox, that's sad CH has that mentality). If Collins wins, it shows just how good of a coach they have (and how different of a team CH is away from home).

FK has gotten its brains beat it by several teams. Big. Small. Home. Road. Doesn't matter. FK was fully planning to play. With 15 kids (and those are NOT 15 starters). As a winless team. On the road. Against a team which would beat 80 percent of teams in Kentucky (with those teams playing at home with full rosters). FK has taken plenty of losses to DeSales and still played them. You do NOT forfeit a district game unless circumstances make it too hard. Playing with 12 kids (one of which would have a hard time making many JV teams and suffice it to say would NEVER see the field in a meaningful game, especially as a starter) against a top-10 team would not have ended well. And with a coach whose team doesn't have his full attention. Aside: I don't care if Combs was at St. X, Trinity, Mayfield, BG, whoever. Based on what his kids are currently going through, football takes a BACK SEAT (and it's questionable football should even be in the back seat of the car at this point, although football does give him a chance to think about things other than if his kids will still need blood transfusions, feeding tubes and dialysis for the foreseeable future). So would it REALLY have been better to play, get a couple of kids injured and then not had enough to even finish the game? I don't think so, whether FK is 5-0 or 0-5 going into the game. DeSales' homecoming be darned (aside: NEVER schedule a creampuff for homecoming. Ever. Not in basketball. Not in football. It's lazy). And Friday's weather was horrible anyway. I'm not sure FK thought "time off with family is most important", however, that's what parents CHOSE to do. Not the coaches, per se. Nor the players, per se. Obviously FK had a game scheduled during fall break (and does NOT have a habit of forfeiting) and has another game scheduled this week (against another quality program). You CAN'T force your parents to keep kids on post during fall break. You CAN'T force kids to be there for practice/games. You're at the MERCY of the PARENTS, not the parents at the mercy of the all-mighty football program (which FK is certainly not). You can't just kick the kids out, because well, they're already NOT there anyway. So it serves no purpose. I'm not sure what options people think Fort Knox has/had that it hasn't tried exploring. FK actually pays most of its coaches very well (not just football, but even minor sports). And their facilities are adequate. Not great, but I've seen worse. But think about it: There's gotta be a reason big-name coaches and qualified coaches won't touch the jobs if payment is NOT a concern and facilities are NOT a concern. And I think the world of Coach Combs. He's a good, upstanding man. But it's an uphill battle (every year). I've been around the FK program for parts of the last 14 years. Several other folks on here have ties to the program (or know how it works). I do NOT know how to fix it. Not many other folks know how, either.