I'll start a new thread.

True. I've never heard any praise for Vick's skill set either.

 

So why don't you have a deep rooted hatred for Vick like you do Tebow?

Quite frankly, all the talk of Tebow not being a competent QB is a worn out old record… at least in this game against Pittsburgh. In fact, it was the Steelers banking on Tebow’s weaknesses that was their downfall. If a guy that throws for 316 yards for two TDs, 0 sacks, 0 yards lost, 0 fumbles, 0 interceptions against one of the league’s best defenses is incompetent, then three-quarters of the other QBs in the NFL aren’t competent either.

 

At least give credit to the o-line for that!

 

Whether anyone chooses to acknowledge the humble power of faith in God, this kid was a premier NFL QB Sunday against Pittsburgh.

 

And if he loses next Sunday, the humble power of faith in God has not changed one iota.

At least give credit to the o-line for that!

And if he loses next Sunday, the humble power of faith in God has not changed one iota.

No one... at least not myself, is taking anything away from any of Tebow's teammates. I said as much in my last post. Kyle Orton had the same teammates and was 1-4 as the starting QB this season.

 

I played the game... at least through high school. I know all too well that it takes 11 guys at a time doing their jobs very well to win consistently. I also know that perspective is an interesting thing…

 

Counting his three starts at the end of last season resulting in a 1-2 record, and his current 8-4 record this season, Tim Tebow is 9-6 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

 

John Elway was 7-8 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB for the Broncos. In his first post season start, he lost 31-7 to Seattle on 10-15 completions for 123 yards, 0 TDs and 1 Interception. His QB rating that game was 64. In his second playoff appearance he lost 24-17 to Pittsburgh on 19-37 passing for 184 yards, 2 TDs, 2 interceptions, 4 sacks and 37 yards lost. His QB rating was 61.1. He ended up taking the Broncos to 5 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

 

By comparison with some current top tier QBs:

 

Peyton Manning was 3-12 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Eli Manning was 7-8 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Drew Brees was 8-7 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Michael Vick was 9-5-1 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

 

Ironically, Ben Rothlisberger was 15-0 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB, and was reprimanded by the league for painting “PFJ” (“Play for Jesus”) on his cleats in his rookie year, and in a pre-Super Bowl interview in 2005 said, “You don’t have to listen to what I have to say, but I will always have the opportunity to glorify God in all that I do.”

 

Tebow is a winner, whether at QB, Fullback, Linebacker... or ministering to orphans in the Phillipines. I love his heart and attitude. :thumb:

I don't think God really is concerned about sports. Why would He answer Tebow's prayers but not the kicker from Stanford in their bowl game loss to Oklahoma State? I saw him on the sidelines making the cross sign on his chest and praying, just before he missed the biggest field goal of his life.

 

Maybe God did answer the kicker's prayer...with a great big NO. :idunno:

So why don't you have a deep rooted hatred for Vick like you do Tebow?

 

 

Because Virginia Tech is not a rival to FSU and when Vick played FSU he lost. I enjoyed Vick in college and the pros and still enjoy Vick.

No one... at least not myself, is taking anything away from any of Tebow's teammates. I said as much in my last post. Kyle Orton had the same teammates and was 1-4 as the starting QB this season.

 

I played the game... at least through high school. I know all too well that it takes 11 guys at a time doing their jobs very well to win consistently. I also know that perspective is an interesting thing…

 

Counting his three starts at the end of last season resulting in a 1-2 record, and his current 8-4 record this season, Tim Tebow is 9-6 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

 

John Elway was 7-8 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB for the Broncos. In his first post season start, he lost 31-7 to Seattle on 10-15 completions for 123 yards, 0 TDs and 1 Interception. His QB rating that game was 64. In his second playoff appearance he lost 24-17 to Pittsburgh on 19-37 passing for 184 yards, 2 TDs, 2 interceptions, 4 sacks and 37 yards lost. His QB rating was 61.1. He ended up taking the Broncos to 5 Super Bowls and is in the Hall of Fame.

 

By comparison with some current top tier QBs:

 

Peyton Manning was 3-12 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Eli Manning was 7-8 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Drew Brees was 8-7 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

Michael Vick was 9-5-1 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB.

 

Ironically, Ben Rothlisberger was 15-0 in his first 15 starts as an NFL QB, and was reprimanded by the league for painting “PFJ” (“Play for Jesus”) on his cleats in his rookie year, and in a pre-Super Bowl interview in 2005 said, “You don’t have to listen to what I have to say, but I will always have the opportunity to glorify God in all that I do.”

 

Tebow is a winner, whether at QB, Fullback, Linebacker... or ministering to orphans in the Phillipines. I love his heart and attitude. :thumb:

 

Good post until you put Roethlisberger and Jesus in the same sentence. Probably not a good model for athletes that are devout Christians.

Because Virginia Tech is not a rival to FSU and when Vick played FSU he lost. I enjoyed Vick in college and the pros and still enjoy Vick.

 

So it really has nothing at all to do with "Tebow the QB" like you say. :lol:

I think both approaches can be very effective & I believe both are very Biblical. James come down very hard on those who verbally profess faith, yet fail to back up their words with legitimate deeds. Rodgers' stance reminds me of 1 Peter 2: 11-12,which says, "Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us."

 

Conversely, I don't have a problem at all with Tebow's approach, which I see as being both heavily verbal & active. His work in the Philippines & in prison ministries speaks for itself IMO. We have to remember that in preparing people for Jesus' ministry, John the Baptist was more in-your-face than Tim Tebow will ever dream of being. He's actually more akin to the prototypical "street-corner preacher" in that he was very boisterous and outspoken.

 

So long as both are authentic, I can't favor one style over the other. What I will say is that the deeds part of Christian living better be straight-up, or else the words are nothing but empty & hollow. With Tebow, I have yet to see anything contradictory in words vs. actions.

 

 

There are numerous Biblical instances in which God materially blessed people who were very faithful to Him. The most glaring one (IMO) is that of Abraham. Even when he had relapses of faith, it was as if God was bound & determined to financially bless him more than he could have ever imagined. I also think of Job. God was so pleased with him that He doubled Job's possessions, which were considerable to begin with.

 

Yet there are other times when faithfulness does not equate to an immediate, material blessing. John the Baptist did exactly what he was born to do & ended up in prison...ultimately beheaded. Paul prayed three times for a "thorn in the flesh" to be removed from his life and God essentially said, "No. My grace is enough." He too ended up beheaded.

 

Scripture says the rain falls on the just and the unjust. The prophet Jeremiah asked a question similar to Habib's---"Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?" (Jeremiah 12:1). God sometimes rewards people of faith with physical blessing that is immediate & very visible. There are other times when He withholds it. There are times when God allows the wicked to prosper. And there are times when He brings them to their knees.

 

A passage from Romans helps me here (in addition to NWO's from Isaiah). I call this verse the "God's prerogative" passage of the Bible: What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (Romans 9: 14-15)

 

I don't pretend to try to know the source of Tim Tebow's recent success in helping lead his team to where it is today. Is God playing a part? Perhaps. But then again, perhaps not. But I'm not going to say He most certainly is or He most certainly is not.

 

A quote from Augustine comes to mind--one I've used before & will likely use many more times. Something like, "Once we fully understand God, He stops being God."

 

Well said on both accounts!

So it really has nothing at all to do with "Tebow the QB" like you say. :lol:

 

I don't follow you. He's an average qb that went to Florida that I have never liked. :lol:

 

Tyler Hansbrough is an average power forward that went to UNC that I have never liked. :lol:

James 4:6 "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says, God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble

 

James 4:10 "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up."

 

1 Peter 5:6 "Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you."

 

As I read these verses, we must conclude that humility is perhaps the most grace and favor producing attribute. And not just humility in general but humility before God which is most truly proven and measured by humility before men. Have you ever seen a more humble person that has won national championships, won the Heisman, and now won a playoff game in the face of critics? I haven't. His humility is no doubt allowing God to raise him up, NOT mainly for winning football games, but for God's glory AND because God cares about the dreams that He puts in our heart. I truly believe that if we put God first in our life, humble ourselves unto Him as Lord of our life, He will pour grace or favor our way. Remember the rivers of grace flow to the lowest (humble) places. I don't think Tim Tebow is using God as a weapon. Tim is doing what he loves and putting God first in it - something that is very Biblical and is proven to bring God's favor and blessing. This goes for a person in the NFL, just as it goes for anyone else, as well as a nation, a community, or a household.

 

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM, and He shall direct your path."

 

I don't think God cares about football, But He cares about Tim Tebow and God sees Tim's heart and humility toward Him. I also think that God cares and loves all people, so yes, from time to time He raises up people, with a certain demeanor and personality, with certain gifting and platform, for the sake of sharing and preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ...the only hope for salvation for all people. What is so amazing to me is how many people have put their thoughts toward God, even if is just to argue, just in a few weeks of Tebow Time. And this morning, I read and article on foxsports.com that had John 3:16 quoted in the article, and I thought wow, how many people are going to read this scripture (Word of God) that would have not read it at all otherwise...just because God allowed Tim to throw for 316 yards. Summary - God cares about people, and He will use anything, football, Tim Tebow, whoever or whatever for His purpose of love and redemption to mankind.

And oh yeah...for those who didnt read the article...John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Good post until you put Roethlisberger and Jesus in the same sentence. Probably not a good model for athletes that are devout Christians.

 

We all sin. Does that mean we lose Jesus' grace because we do?

We all sin. Does that mean we lose Jesus' grace because we do?

 

Nope. Just saying there are better Christian examples to use besides Ben Roethlisberger.

Nope. Just saying there are better Christian examples to use besides Ben Roethlisberger.

 

What would be a better example of Christian faith than a sinner who's fallen, risen and then turned his life around?