UC presser tomorrow will include all suspended players who will have to make a public apology and take questions from the media. Should be interesting...

 

And potentially VERY embarrassing if those players aren't extremely humble and don't articulate themselves fairly well.

It's easy to take thing's out of context and create things that I did not say or mean. What you have bolded I basically meant was once all hell breaks lose stuff happens. Obviously all hell broke loose in that scrum Saturday. When you have a big on the court/field skirmish like that players are going to lose control of themselves, Saturday it happened to be Gates. No different than anything we have seen in the past, I mean speaking of rivalries, Sox/Yanks brawl, Don Zimmer anyone? It would appear he lost control of himself, and he was a 70+ year old who should have known better, much less a college kid with a lot of emotion and aggression still left in him. Go ahead and try again if you want, you guys can try and make me look stupid or whatever your intention is, but to me it doesn't change my opinion that when things like this happen (bench clearning altercations) things happen, plain and simple. Want another example? How about Knicks/Nuggets and Nate Robinson and Carmelo Anthony? I mean face it when stuff like this happens and it becomes a pushing match between two teams punches sometimes get thrown. Yesterday was an extreme case, but you guys are acting like this is the first time something like this has ever happened, happens all the time in sports, get over it.

Didnt Zimmer retire shortly after?

OK, so when benches clear dudes start throwing cheap shots at whoever...

 

That's the norm.

 

We have a new standard operating procedure.

I highly doubt anything negative comes out of the presser. They saw a bad presser. They learned you don't play tough guy in the presser.

 

It will be humbling for them which is a good thing.

 

We get too rapped up in nailing guys when they make a mistake. Yancey made a terrible decision and one that could cost him outside of basketball. The African kid #13 made a terrible mistake as well. I tend to give guys a bit of a break in heat-of-the-moment situations. I'm not going to fall into the "thug" trap. Never met the dudes involved. I'll assume they're decent people. Mick raved about the African. He's probably shocked about it but I doubt he was lying about the kid.

 

I've been there. I've been carried off of a field by a referee in a JV football game for fighting. Bad decision on my part that day. Most (not all) will say I turned out alright. I took my punishment from my coach and everyone moved on.

 

We're too eager to nail people for mistakes that in the big picture didn't do a lot of damage (other than Yancey). We want them to fit in our "box" of how they should be and how they should talk and what words they should use and as soon as they do not we want to nail them to the wall.

 

I'm more bothered by contradictions , irrational statements, rush to judgement, lack of thinking by the coaches/SIDs/officials. They're paid to do a job which includes handling situations like yesterday. Many of them need to reflect on their mistakes and make sure it doesn't happen again.

I highly doubt anything negative comes out of the presser. They saw a bad presser. They learned you don't play tough guy in the presser.

 

It will be humbling for them which is a good thing.

 

We get too rapped up in nailing guys when they make a mistake. Yancey made a terrible decision and one that could cost him outside of basketball. The African kid #13 made a terrible mistake as well. I tend to give guys a bit of a break in heat-of-the-moment situations. I'm not going to fall into the "thug" trap. Never met the dudes involved. I'll assume they're decent people. Mick raved about the African. He's probably shocked about it but I doubt he was lying about the kid.

 

I've been there. I've been carried off of a field by a referee in a JV football game for fighting. Bad decision on my part that day. Most (not all) will say I turned out alright. I took my punishment from my coach and everyone moved on.

 

We're too eager to nail people for mistakes that in the big picture didn't do a lot of damage (other than Yancey). We want them to fit in our "box" of how they should be and how they should talk and what words they should use and as soon as they do not we want to nail them to the wall.

 

I'm more bothered by contradictions , irrational statements, rush to judgement, lack of thinking by the coaches/SIDs/officials. They're paid to do a job which includes handling situations like yesterday. Many of them need to reflect on their mistakes and make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

Agreed. Good post. I think that a lot of people were expecting stronger reactions from the coaches and universities so as to demonstrate to the kids that their behavior, their mentalities were unacceptable and need to change, which is an integral part of growing up that college is supposed to assist. At least from an outside perspective, the reactions seemed fairly mild and designed so as to not significantly affect wins and losses. Perhaps missing a couple of games is enough to straighten someone out, or perhaps the coaches are handling the issues in other ways as well, but on the surface it doesn't seem very genuine. Like coop said, I hope these kids are humble and able to bear the responsibility for their actions under scrutiny, but I also hope they will practice what they will be preaching and I hope they will be held to it.

Let's take emotion out of it and strip it down.

 

Yancey threw two punches and one was vicious. How many games should 2 punches warrant?

 

African #13 stomped on a guy. IMO the worst action of the entire fracas. Should he get more, less, or same as Yancey?

 

Wells pushed a guy to start it and then threw punches (many of them). 4 games. 66% of the "stomp" suspension. 4 games for punches seems fair.

 

Cheeks. Yapped. Threw a few punches. Got Yancey to back off a bit. 2 games for punches seems fair to me.

 

Tu: We didn't like what he said afterwards. He didn't punch anyone. Yapped too much at the end of the game. You going to suspend someone for yapping? Where will our players come from? 1 game for a bad metaphor seems fair.

 

The only way I would say more for all of these guys is IF I were trying to set a new precedent. The teams would probably argue they have done that. I don't recall many 4 and 6-game suspensions in college.

Let's take emotion out of it and strip it down.

 

Yancey threw two punches and one was vicious. How many games should 2 punches warrant?

 

African #13 stomped on a guy. IMO the worst action of the entire fracas. Should he get more, less, or same as Yancey?

 

Wells pushed a guy to start it and then threw punches (many of them). 4 games. 66% of the "stomp" suspension. 4 games for punches seems fair.

 

Cheeks. Yapped. Threw a few punches. Got Yancey to back off a bit. 2 games for punches seems fair to me.

 

Tu: We didn't like what he said afterwards. He didn't punch anyone. Yapped too much at the end of the game. You going to suspend someone for yapping? Where will our players come from? 1 game for a bad metaphor seems fair.

 

The only way I would say more for all of these guys is IF I were trying to set a new precedent. The teams would probably argue they have done that. I don't recall many 4 and 6-game suspensions in college.

 

I think Yancy should have been closer to 10 games, but it seems the feeling from UC was that 3 players were over the line and they were punished evenly.

 

See above on Cheikh. Thought 6 games was the right punishment for him.

 

Wells started it and not only threw but connected on several punches. Don't think he should get less than 6 that Yancy got because he didn't connect better. Not all that broken up about a 2 game difference really, but landing punches is landing punches.

 

2 for Cheeks is fair. No clear video of him landing a punch and he did get Gates to back off after they almost squared up.

 

I think Holloway deserved 2 or 3 games. He openly has said he instigated everything by running his mouth at the UC bench and he showed zero remorse with his comments in the post game. Just like part of the reason I feel Gates deserved more is because he is a senior leader and has to know better, the same goes for Holloway. He is the face of the X program right now and did not represent himself or the university in the fashion you have to expect from someone in his position.

 

Agree on the last part...

I lost all respect for Cronin. He talked the talk yesterday but didn't back it up today. Gates should have been thrown off the team but Cronin didn't have the gonads to do it. Screw UC and X. Both are loser programs with no class at all. Another eye sore for Cincinnati. Both teams are a bunch of THUGS!

I lost all respect for Cronin. He talked the talk yesterday but didn't back it up today. Gates should have been thrown off the team but Cronin didn't have the gonads to do it. Screw UC and X. Both are loser programs with no class at all. Another eye sore for Cincinnati. Both teams are a bunch of THUGS!

 

Scratch that, they are gangstas!

Good points Clyde and GT.

Xavier's administration and handling of the post game is really perplexing.

 

I still think Gates should have gotten more. I see his punch being more of an issue than what the big kid did stomping. Sucker punch to an unsuspecting person.

In a court of law who would have gotten the worst of it? Gates or the stomp. I say Gates.

 

I think Holloway should get more than a game, because more or less he incited much of everything that occurred.

He handled himself poorly.

Didnt Zimmer retire shortly after?

OK, so when benches clear dudes start throwing cheap shots at whoever...

 

That's the norm.

 

We have a new standard operating procedure.

 

 

As bad as I hate to say it that has been the norm for a while now. Where has everybody been during all these other bench clearing incidents? I mean I have seen it all when it comes to that. I have seen baseball players try and karate kick each other, Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson sprint into the stands to take on all comers. Carmelo Anthony sneak down court and sucker punch someone in the back of the head then cowardly skip back the other direction. Brandon Merriweather hitting a FIU player with his helmet. I mean crazy stuff happens in these circumstances, its not like I'm trying to make up a big fairy tale. Gates hitting a dude with a punch isn't nothing compared to some of the stuff that goes on in these occurrences. The way some of you are acting makes it look like he was out there shanking guys with a knife or something.

I highly doubt anything negative comes out of the presser. They saw a bad presser. They learned you don't play tough guy in the presser.

 

It will be humbling for them which is a good thing.

 

We get too rapped up in nailing guys when they make a mistake.

 

We're too eager to nail people for mistakes that in the big picture didn't do a lot of damage (other than Yancey). We want them to fit in our "box" of how they should be and how they should talk and what words they should use and as soon as they do not we want to nail them to the wall..

 

Our think our definition of "nailing" kids and "holding them accountable" must differ somewhat, which surprises me since I've always deemed you semi-intelligent.

 

I am left with this feeling that you want to minimize the seriousness of their actions. Frease could have been hurt very badly. Sure, he wasn't, but what if the blow or stomp landed in just such a way to really injury his eye and maybe end his career? Perhaps landing the sucker punch 2 inches higher could have made the injury much worse? More serious punishment warranted then? I say no. It was the intent of the punch, the egregious manner of some of these players' behavior, the lack of remorse, the pride over participating/instigating it. "Nailing" a kid would be telling Holloway his season is over. One game? Not sure that conveys that strong of a statement or effects any major attitude change.

 

We'll disagree on this I suppose. I get tired of all the showmanship, one-upmanship, selfishness, me-first bravado, smack talk. A little is fine, I guess, but it's just too entirely commonplace and over-the-top these days. I don't think anyone is being "nailed" here. I think they're being held responsible for some outrageous and, quite frankly, criminal behavior. Period.

Edited December 12, 201114 yr by cooperstown

If you watch the video, Gates also took the basketball and fired a pass right into the face of a Xavier player prior to throwing the punch.

Way too light for Guyn, he was the instigator!!!! Kid has no class.

Both coaches are getting killed by the public and the media. Here's Bomani Jones' take:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/2011/12/12/2629332/cincinnati-xavier-brawl-matt-cronin-press-conference-2011/in/2390431

Both coaches are getting killed by the public and the media. Here's Bomani Jones' take:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-basketball/2011/12/12/2629332/cincinnati-xavier-brawl-matt-cronin-press-conference-2011/in/2390431

 

Of course they are. Today's media loves to hype the story and they need to have an edge in their take to make headlines.