Were you there? You're pulling those percentages out of the air, and I simply made a factual statement that the fans that night whether it be the made up percentages you gave or every single fan in Wrigleyville account for less than 1% of all Cubs fans.

Can you point to the research you used to decipher this "factual" statement? :lol:

 

I'm not sure where you feel you're the end all, know all to all things Cubs, but at the end of the day you're simply exaggerating by saying all Cub fans feel a certain way about what happened. Bottom line you're guessing and wrong.

I am guessing. But if you see the footage and think my 95% and 100% figures are way off I have a beach condo here in Louisville to sell you. It seems to be a safe assumption to make that there are more than "1%" of Cubs fans who feel the same way as basically everyone at Wrigley that night did.

That's not even what's being debated.

Let me make sure I have this right? You claim to not blame Bartman but you assert that Alou's failure to catch the ball and subsequent meltdown is actually what's at fault here. Though when asked the root cause of why Alou had said meltdown you refuse to answer? Can you apply blinders with superglue?

Can you point to the research you used to decipher this "factual" statement? :lol:

 

I am guessing. But if you see the footage and think my 95% and 100% figures are way off I have a beach condo here in Louisville to sell you. It seems to be a safe assumption to make that there are more than "1%" of Cubs fans who feel the same way as basically everyone at Wrigley that night did.

 

Once again you're grasping a straws. I assure you that less than 1% of Cubs fans at home weren't throwing beer on Bartman and challenging him to a fight. Sure there are psychotic Cub fans. EVERY team thats relevant has crazy fans, UK fans have just as crazy of fans. I'm a diehard Cub fan, so pardon me if I take offense to being called an "idiot" by people who are basing their opinions on a tv show.

Let me make sure I have this right? You claim to not blame Bartman but you assert that Alou's failure to catch the ball and subsequent meltdown is actually what's at fault here. Though when asked the root cause of why Alou had said meltdown you refuse to answer? Can you apply blinders with superglue?

I don't think it's even debatable what caused Alou's meltdown, fan interference! But that happens in tons of games, but I challenge you to find an instance of where a player went that psycho, which is what I'm blaming the collapse on. Once again, you should refrain from forming other people's opinions.

Once again you're grasping a straws. I assure you that less than 1% of Cubs fans at home weren't throwing beer on Bartman and challenging him to a fight. Sure there are psychotic Cub fans. EVERY team thats relevant has crazy fans, UK fans have just as crazy of fans. I'm a diehard Cub fan, so pardon me if I take offense to being called an "idiot" by people who are basing their opinions on a tv show.

We didn't have cameras filming the Cubs fans who weren't inside of Wrigley or on Waveland. Based on the Cubs fans represented (and the countless ones who later expressed their opinions) the large majority acted that way. While this is only my opinion I'm sure it's shared by many that if those fans at home were placed in Wrigley their actions would've probably fit in nicely.

 

BUT, what we do know is that the overwhelming majority of fans inside of Wrigley or Waveland acted that way. I find that hard to dispute.

I don't think it's even debatable what caused Alou's meltdown, fan interference! But that happens in tons of games,

We definitely differ here as I don't think fan interference happens in tons of games. Actually this may be an apropos use of your "less than 1%" figure...

 

but I challenge you to find an instance of where a player went that psycho, which is what I'm blaming the collapse on. Once again, you should refrain from forming other people's opinions.

Probably not. Alou had an overreaction though I'd stop short of labeling it psycho. By his words and yours he could have caught that ball. Maybe he was just upset at what actually caused him to not catch that ball. :idunno:

Every franchise has bad fans. Some more than others because some have a larger fan base. The Cubs have one of the more national followings of any professional sport. With that said....

 

Every fanbase looks for a scapegoat when their team loses a big game -- i.e. the Red Sox with Buckner, Bengals fans blaming Stanley Wilson for going AWOL during the Super Bowl; The Falcons blaming Eugene Robinson for his prostitution bust Super Bowl weekend; Heck, even Cardinal fans -- the self-proclaimed "best fans in baseball" sent Don Dekinger death threats after his blown call in the 1985 World Series.

 

But no franchise searches for a scapegoat more than Cubs fans do. For some reason, it's in our DNA. Maybe it comes from a local fanbase that drinks, goes to games, then hits the local tavern to heap praise on their heroes and blame their self-created villians. And thus the scapegoat is created. Billy Goat. Black Cat. Leon Durham. Peter Ueberroth. Ernie Broggolio. Steve Bartman.

 

I'm dusgusted by the behavior of Cubs fans shown in the piece. There was a meltdown both on the field and in the stands....something about a team not knowing how to win the big game. It carried over to the fans.

 

But just like Don Dekinger's blown call, Lee Smith grooving a fast ball to Steve Garvey, or Buckner's boot, there was still another game to be played the next night and they didn't come through.

 

Oldrambler is entitled to his opinion, Marty Brenneman-esque as it appears. I would expect nothing less from someone who sports a Yankees avatar. The only difference between Cubs fans and Yankee fans is where their teams are in the standings and the number of World Titles. Ask Cliff Lee's wife how the Yankee fans behave at games? You wonder why you didn't get him off the FA market?

 

I thought it was an interesting piece, mainly because it was directed by a Red Sox fan who could understand a fan base desperate to end a championship drought. I think that's why the Buckner angle played so prominant.

 

Kentucky basketball fans have the officials. UK football fans have Joker. Trailblazer fans have Sam Bowie (ahead of Michael Jordan). Oriole fans have Jeffrey Maier. Stanford fans have the band on the field.

 

It's an unfortunate byproduct of sports that every losing team's fans have that need to pin the loss on someone or something other than the players on the field. If you don't believe me, just listen to a post-game call-in show following a loss.

 

Well put together piece. And as a Cubs fan, I dont blame Bartman for the loss. It was the goat. Or a cat or something.

Absolutely not! But I believe Alou would have caught the ball, and also believe that had he not had a meltdown, the Cubs go on to win the game. But for anyone to try and say that definitively Alou wouldn't have caught the ball and that his reaction had nothing to do with the collapse in that game is out of line. And also for a Card fam to say the 88-74 "wasn't that good" is surprising sense the '06 Cards won the Series after going 83-78.

 

As an objective person on this topic (I don't care for the sport of baseball), after watching the film, I do think he would have made the catch.

 

I think the crowd issue was the perfert storm of; Alou's reaction, TV coverage of Bartman, outside crowd influence and the importance of the game. I could see this happening in any stadium under the same circumstances.

As an objective person on this topic (I don't care for the sport of baseball), after watching the film, I do think he would have made the catch.

 

I think the crowd issue was the perfert storm of; Alou's reaction, TV coverage of Bartman, outside crowd influence and the importance of the game. I could see this happening in any stadium under the same circumstances.

 

 

I agree with this post. I think Alou would have caught the ball after showing the path of the ball with Alou and everyone else taken out of the picture. I looked like it was going right into his glove.

 

 

I think if a Bartman scenario would have happened in Boston they would have thrown him off of the green monster. If it was in Yankee Stadium they would beat him unmercifully the rest of the game but they would still pause to sing "God Bless America" in the middle of the 7th. If it was in Shea Stadium they would throw batteries at him. In Philly, they probably would have just shot him. I don't think all Cubs fans are idiots because of the actions of the fans at Wrigley that night. I don't even think 50% of the chanters are idiots. Sports can be emotional and long suffering fans can double that emotion instantly. I have seen a lot of people get carried away as players, coaches and fans in an isolated incident but I wouldn't characterize them all as idiots. It was emotional night at Wrigley. I don't condone their actions at all but I don't hold it against Cubs fans today for their actions from years ago.

 

Now if I were Bartman I'd be the world's biggest Cardinal fan.

Every franchise has bad fans. Some more than others because some have a larger fan base. The Cubs have one of the more national followings of any professional sport. With that said....

 

Every fanbase looks for a scapegoat when their team loses a big game -- i.e. the Red Sox with Buckner, Bengals fans blaming Stanley Wilson for going AWOL during the Super Bowl; The Falcons blaming Eugene Robinson for his prostitution bust Super Bowl weekend; Heck, even Cardinal fans -- the self-proclaimed "best fans in baseball" sent Don Dekinger death threats after his blown call in the 1985 World Series.

 

But no franchise searches for a scapegoat more than Cubs fans do. For some reason, it's in our DNA. Maybe it comes from a local fanbase that drinks, goes to games, then hits the local tavern to heap praise on their heroes and blame their self-created villians. And thus the scapegoat is created. Billy Goat. Black Cat. Leon Durham. Peter Ueberroth. Ernie Broggolio. Steve Bartman.

 

I'm dusgusted by the behavior of Cubs fans shown in the piece. There was a meltdown both on the field and in the stands....something about a team not knowing how to win the big game. It carried over to the fans.

 

But just like Don Dekinger's blown call, Lee Smith grooving a fast ball to Steve Garvey, or Buckner's boot, there was still another game to be played the next night and they didn't come through.

 

Oldrambler is entitled to his opinion, Marty Brenneman-esque as it appears. I would expect nothing less from someone who sports a Yankees avatar. The only difference between Cubs fans and Yankee fans is where their teams are in the standings and the number of World Titles. Ask Cliff Lee's wife how the Yankee fans behave at games? You wonder why you didn't get him off the FA market?

 

I thought it was an interesting piece, mainly because it was directed by a Red Sox fan who could understand a fan base desperate to end a championship drought. I think that's why the Buckner angle played so prominant.

 

Kentucky basketball fans have the officials. UK football fans have Joker. Trailblazer fans have Sam Bowie (ahead of Michael Jordan). Oriole fans have Jeffrey Maier. Stanford fans have the band on the field.

 

It's an unfortunate byproduct of sports that every losing team's fans have that need to pin the loss on someone or something other than the players on the field. If you don't believe me, just listen to a post-game call-in show following a loss.

 

Well put together piece. And as a Cubs fan, I dont blame Bartman for the loss. It was the goat. Or a cat or something.

 

But it definitely wasn't the fault of Alex Gonzalez for booting the double play ball, or the pitchers who walked those guys, or ....

Ok I know my post on this subject is a little late, but last night I got to watch the showfor the first time. But I want to say first I'm still trying to figure out why almost 30-35 minutes was dedicated to Bill Buckner. O nevermind that is ESPN for you, the Boston Red Sox are one of the favorites!! And second, some Cub fans should be embarrassed at how some fans acted towards Bartman. And if you where sitting in that seat chances are you would have gone for the foul ball also, admit it..... But nobody deserves to have somebody tell them to put a 12-guage shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger. Nor did he deserve to have that fan walk down and throw his beer at him. I've always heard Met fans are the roughest, but after watching that last night I would put some Cub fans up there. Total embarrassment for that organization.

I agree with this post. I think Alou would have caught the ball after showing the path of the ball with Alou and everyone else taken out of the picture. I looked like it was going right into his glove.

 

 

I think if a Bartman scenario would have happened in Boston they would have thrown him off of the green monster. If it was in Yankee Stadium they would beat him unmercifully the rest of the game but they would still pause to sing "God Bless America" in the middle of the 7th. If it was in Shea Stadium they would throw batteries at him. In Philly, they probably would have just shot him. I don't think all Cubs fans are idiots because of the actions of the fans at Wrigley that night. I don't even think 50% of the chanters are idiots. Sports can be emotional and long suffering fans can double that emotion instantly. I have seen a lot of people get carried away as players, coaches and fans in an isolated incident but I wouldn't characterize them all as idiots. It was emotional night at Wrigley. I don't condone their actions at all but I don't hold it against Cubs fans today for their actions from years ago.

 

Now if I were Bartman I'd be the world's biggest Cardinal fan.

 

:lol: I just spit my Pepsi all over my screen....Love it. :thumb:

I finally watched it last night. Feel very bad for Bartman

I watched last night and didn't realize how bad of a situation it was for Bartman. What a nightmare to live through.

I watched last night and didn't realize how bad of a situation it was for Bartman. What a nightmare to live through.

 

I agree. I knew it was bad but didn't know it was that bad