Define "make a scene" or "promote it in public."

 

Or bring attention to, or make your beliefs known.

Now see, Muslims, Jews, Christians all have the same God, it is called semitic religion. Only difference is belief of Jesus.

 

You are correct. That was an error on my part. The point is still the same. There are religions that have different gods.

Or bring attention to, or make your beliefs known.

 

People know my beliefs. They see me going to church. They know where I sent my kids for school. They see me and see how I live. I don't have to shout from the rooftops. I live it.

 

I also follow the law of the land. My religion and the law coexist.

People know my beliefs. They see me going to church. They know where I sent my kids for school. They see me and see how I live. I don't have to shout from the rooftops. I live it.

 

I also follow the law of the land. My religion and the law coexist.

 

Well let me ask you this. IMO when the time comes you will be ordered to get a mark, IMO by the government, will you do it since it will be the law. IMO

Well let me ask you this. IMO when the time comes you will be ordered to get a mark, IMO by the government, will you do it since it will be the law. IMO

 

Only after I affirm my commitment to the extraterrestrials at which time I will be given 3 heads.

 

In other words, ask a moronic question get a moronic answer.

If ordered by law to get the mark of the beast by the government, will you?

If ordered by law to get the mark of the beast by the government, will you?

 

Yes.

 

After I make them agree to let me watch the Ellen DeGeneres Show whenever I want.

 

Oh yeah, and as long as they let me sing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" when I'm sad.

 

And if they allow me to keep the part of my brain that replies to idiotic questions.

Yes.

 

After I make them agree to let me watch the Ellen DeGeneres Show whenever I want.

 

Oh yeah, and as long as they let me sing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" when I'm sad.

 

And if they allow me to keep the part of my brain that replies to idiotic questions.

 

So in the Book of Revelation where it speaks of the mark of the beast. REV 13:16-17, I hope you are not serious and I would never MOCK . Man just when I thought I may have seen a few things in common.

If ordered by law to get the mark of the beast by the government, will you?

 

I think this is a legitimate question, though I don't think it pertains to the Bell County situation. While I interpret that particular prophecy in a different manner, the general lesson of it is very applicable. If the government tells me I cannot live my normal life (i.e. "buy or sell" per Revelation 13) unless I swear my primary allegiance to said government or a government leader, what will be my response?

 

In this particular instance at Bell County, the government/courts have stated this type of prayer to be unconstitutional. I've pointed out in other posts why this is ridiculous, considering the same type of prayer is permissible at an inauguration, Congressional session, etc. But I don't see this as a Revelation 13 type of scenario. As others have stated, prayer is still permissible; just not in the fashion it has typically been expressed.

 

I think this issue, at least for me, is not so much about the prayer being removed as it is the symbol of the prayer being removed. This kind of thing has taken place in our country for quite some time, until deemed unconstitutional in recent years. For many Christians, they/we see this as yet another example of our country's moral decay. Most of us love our country and want it to be restored to its Judeo-Christian roots. We view something like this as a step in the opposite direction.

 

Are we perfect in expressing our concerns and frustrations? Far from it. Do we sometimes cross lines & even fight back with hateful words and actions (as Jesus has asked us not to)? Unfortunately so. But I really do believe--and this is speaking from my own heart and perspective--that we really think it is best for America to reclaim some of the core values upon which we were founded.

 

Truthfully, there are bigger fish for Christians to fry than displays of the Ten Commandments and returning prayer to schools. A better fight is for us to actually live the commandments and grow in our own prayer lives. But I do think this is more about the symbolism than it is anything else. And for me personally, as I've stated repeatedly, it's about the absurdity of no prayer at a public school sporting event, but yes to prayer at a public funded government event (inauguration, Congress).

 

The Revelation 13 passage, in my opinion, is what to do when the government basically says your allegiance must primarily be with them--that you must abandon your own beliefs and commit to what the government says you should commit to.

I'll answer for me....I'm a Catholic and very proud of that. I completely disagree with saying a public prayer at a public school event such as a football game. Yes, I believe that Christianity, Catholicism specifically, is the way to heaven, but I'm not certain of this, as are none of you. God told us not to judge, so I will not judge those who don't believe as I do. I will NEVER try to impress upon others what I believe. Every single one of us have our own free wills to believe what we feel is the truth, and I will not subject those that believe differently from me to my beliefs. What is so wrong with having a moment of silence before the game. That way you or I can pray to our God, while Muslims can pray to theirs, Jews can pray to theirs, and atheists can have a moment of reflection. Why must we all try to jam our religious beliefs down others throats?

 

Now see, Muslims, Jews, Christians all have the same God, it is called semitic religion. Only difference is belief of Jesus.

 

"Semitic" strictly refers to a group of languages originating in the Middle East. While I appreciate what you seem to be saying, it's not totally on the mark. It is true, however, that the religions that arose in the Jerusalem/Arabia area come from the same source (Abraham, Moses, etc.), but many WASP-style "Christians" swear it isn't the case; that Allah and God are two different individuals, despite the common roots of the three monotheistic religions.

 

But I'll go ahead and bust up some of this argument and call it like it is.

 

For Catholics, we (I use that because I was raised that way, not because I'm devout) were brought up from the school that religion and prayer -- and, by extension, our relationship with God -- is a personal thing. That line of thinking was probably always there, but I'm guessing it became more prominent sometime in the mid-1800s in the US, when WASPs were going out of their way to pass laws (if not engage in outright violence against) that were "unfriendly toward immigrants," such as Catholics, who were coming to the US in droves from non-English-speaking places such as Germany, Italy and Ireland. Yes, I intended a joke there at the expense of my two-fisted Irish friends, but my point remains.

 

For some of us Catholics, we are still viewed with the same suspicions that existed 150 years ago, and considering the homogenous nature of states such as Kentucky, where Baptist=Christian and all others can go to Hell, it likely isn't going to change, considering some of what we see and hear coming out of the Baptist flock.

 

As a result, for many of us Catholics, keeping our discussions with God on the downlow and personal is not only an act of respect for our fellow religious folks who may not share our stripe of Christianity, it is/was most certainly a survival mechanism. Certainly was for me growing up in a hilljack town where there was one Catholic Church in the county but dozens of Baptist churches available in case somebody don't like what the good rev has to say that week, and the majority loved to beat you over the head with the fact that "you's a little different than the rest of us'ns," and would even question your Christianity credentials.

 

If you're wondering why it's a good thing the complainant in this case remains anonymous, it's because there are almost certainly some "good Christians" out there who would love to punish them for speaking out. I don't blame them for wanting to preserve their anonymity, either. I grew up with those folks, and they made it to where I couldn't wait to leave the county in which I came of age.

So in the Book of Revelation where it speaks of the mark of the beast. REV 13:16-17, I hope you are not serious and I would never MOCK . Man just when I thought I may have seen a few things in common.

 

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Clyde was raised the same way I was and that is to view the Book of Revelations as symbolic.

I think this is a legitimate question, though I don't think it pertains to the Bell County situation. While I interpret that particular prophecy in a different manner, the general lesson of it is very applicable. If the government tells me I cannot live my normal life (i.e. "buy or sell" per Revelation 13) unless I swear my primary allegiance to said government or a government leader, what will be my response?

 

In this particular instance at Bell County, the government/courts have stated this type of prayer to be unconstitutional. I've pointed out in other posts why this is ridiculous, considering the same type of prayer is permissible at an inauguration, Congressional session, etc. But I don't see this as a Revelation 13 type of scenario. As others have stated, prayer is still permissible; just not in the fashion it has typically been expressed.

 

I think this issue, at least for me, is not so much about the prayer being removed as it is the symbol of the prayer being removed. This kind of thing has taken place in our country for quite some time, until deemed unconstitutional in recent years. For many Christians, they/we see this as yet another example of our country's moral decay. Most of us love our country and want it to be restored to its Judeo-Christian roots. We view something like this as a step in the opposite direction.

 

Are we perfect in expressing our concerns and frustrations? Far from it. Do we sometimes cross lines & even fight back with hateful words and actions (as Jesus has asked us not to)? Unfortunately so. But I really do believe--and this is speaking from my own heart and perspective--that we really think it is best for America to reclaim some of the core values upon which we were founded.

 

Truthfully, there are bigger fish for Christians to fry than displays of the Ten Commandments and returning prayer to schools. A better fight is for us to actually live the commandments and grow in our own prayer lives. But I do think this is more about the symbolism than it is anything else. And for me personally, as I've stated repeatedly, it's about the absurdity of no prayer at a public school sporting event, but yes to prayer at a public funded government event (inauguration, Congress).

 

The Revelation 13 passage, in my opinion, is what to do when the government basically says your allegiance must primarily be with them--that you must abandon your own beliefs and commit to what the government says you should commit to.

 

I think that it's a leap of logic to think that the govt. nixing public-sponsored prayer is on par with forcing people to abandon their beliefs and swear allegiance to anything.

 

I think the main problem with the Protestant community is no different than AWM Syndrome: There are some who can't fathom the concept that they aren't (numerically) top dog anymore, and it's hard to get used to the idea that what used to float -- in terms of hammering things over the collective head of those unlike them -- doesn't any more, regardless of how right you're sure you are.

 

It's why blue laws, thankfully, are falling by the wayside, and why, hopefully, others will start to be a bit more cognizant of the fact that we're not all sheep.

I think that it's a leap of logic to think that the govt. nixing public-sponsored prayer is on par with forcing people to abandon their beliefs and swear allegiance to anything.

 

I agree. That's why I said it was a legitimate question, but didn't relate to the Bell Co. situation.

I agree. That's why I said it was a legitimate question, but didn't relate to the Bell Co. situation.

 

And I don't necessarily disagree with you in terms of the inauguration and SCOTUS examples. A one-size-fits-all approach is definitely warranted, if for no other reason than consistency's sake.

 

But I take great offense toward people unwilling to step outside of their own box and view the world from a different lens -- most specifically how it seems fanciful to them that there could be any way of thinking other than theirs. Sadly, most WASPs seem violently unwilling to do any such critical thinking, as it seems to be viewed as a challenge to their beliefs and, therefore, a non-starter.

"Semitic" strictly refers to a group of languages originating in the Middle East. While I appreciate what you seem to be saying, it's not totally on the mark. It is true, however, that the religions that arose in the Jerusalem/Arabia area come from the same source (Abraham, Moses, etc.), but many WASP-style "Christians" swear it isn't the case; that Allah and God are two different individuals, despite the common roots of the three monotheistic religions.

 

But I'll go ahead and bust up some of this argument and call it like it is.

 

For Catholics, we (I use that because I was raised that way, not because I'm devout) were brought up from the school that religion and prayer -- and, by extension, our relationship with God -- is a personal thing. That line of thinking was probably always there, but I'm guessing it became more prominent sometime in the mid-1800s in the US, when WASPs were going out of their way to pass laws (if not engage in outright violence against) that were "unfriendly toward immigrants," such as Catholics, who were coming to the US in droves from non-English-speaking places such as Germany, Italy and Ireland. Yes, I intended a joke there at the expense of my two-fisted Irish friends, but my point remains.

 

For some of us Catholics, we are still viewed with the same suspicions that existed 150 years ago, and considering the homogenous nature of states such as Kentucky, where Baptist=Christian and all others can go to Hell, it likely isn't going to change, considering some of what we see and hear coming out of the Baptist flock.

 

As a result, for many of us Catholics, keeping our discussions with God on the downlow and personal is not only an act of respect for our fellow religious folks who may not share our stripe of Christianity, it is/was most certainly a survival mechanism. Certainly was for me growing up in a hilljack town where there was one Catholic Church in the county but dozens of Baptist churches available in case somebody don't like what the good rev has to say that week, and the majority loved to beat you over the head with the fact that "you's a little different than the rest of us'ns," and would even question your Christianity credentials.

 

If you're wondering why it's a good thing the complainant in this case remains anonymous, it's because there are almost certainly some "good Christians" out there who would love to punish them for speaking out. I don't blame them for wanting to preserve their anonymity, either. I grew up with those folks, and they made it to where I couldn't wait to leave the county in which I came of age.

God Bless Father Beiting !!