I'm confused how this is even an issue. Were we not a nation founded under the principle of "separation of church and state"?

 

Public schools are government funded, thus "state institutions", thus religion of any kind should not be allowed to be practiced.

 

What am I missing?

 

The debate seems to be who is promoting said religion. Is the school promoting it at a graduation ceremony if only the valedictorian invokes a particular deity? Is the school promoting it with religious terms in the program? I think the 5th said that they didn't see where the school was promoting it - only individual students - thus it was not a violation. However, I've looked on their site for the ruling but it's not posted yet.

Clyde, Just wait, just wait until a student that is going to say a prayer at graduation is not a Christian, but a Muslim, then all heck will break lose, there will be so many people running to their courthouse to stop it they won't all be able to fit in the door.

 

I personally have no issue with anyone saying a prayer before an event, but like you, I know how most will act if the prayer is not said by someone of their religion.

Clyde, Just wait, just wait until a student that is going to say a prayer at graduation is not a Christian, but a Muslim, then all heck will break lose, there will be so many people running to their courthouse to stop it they won't all be able to fit in the door.

 

I agree that 99.9% are not arguing for this because of their fondness for the freedom of all religions to speak.

I'm confused how this is even an issue. Were we not a nation founded under the principle of "separation of church and state"?

 

Public schools are government funded, thus "state institutions", thus religion of any kind should not be allowed to be practiced.

 

What am I missing?

 

If I remember, correctly it is not as cut and dry as that. There was a case, and I apologize but I don't have it memorized, but there was a case where a city put a monument in a park w/ the 10 commandments on it. The monument also had different historical things linked to the founding of the city on it. Since the inclusion of the 10 Commandments was deemed as purely a historical part of the city's founding, it was cool. Maybe, and I haven't read the court opinions on this, they are arguing the tradition approach here. Then again, that didn't work for prayer in school, so I don't know. Really haven't studied it too much.

Clyde, Just wait, just wait until a student that is going to say a prayer at graduation is not a Christian, but a Muslim, then all heck will break lose, there will be so many people running to their courthouse to stop it they won't all be able to fit in the door.

 

I personally have no issue with anyone saying a prayer before an event, but like you, I know how most will act if the prayer is not said by someone of their religion.

If there are Muslims in the class,by all means let them have a prayer opportunity also... Should not even be a problem.. I've been to functions where several prayers were said....

If there are Muslims in the class,by all means let them have a prayer opportunity also... Should not even be a problem.. I've been to functions where several prayers were said....

BUT, MOST other people won't see it that way, they would be so upset that is wasn't a Christian prayer. I have been to places that said several prayers too, or just one prayer that was not a Christian prayer, I had no issue.

 

I am sure most people remember last summer or fall where a Muslim Mosque was to be built, I think Tennessee? People were vandalizing the site and construction equipment. Heck, there was even an outcry in Florence KY about a proposed Mosque.

 

I actually hope a Muslim kid that is the valedictorian at his school comes out and says his prayer at the podium will be a Muslim prayer, just to see most people turn on their stand on this issue, not saying most people here on BGP, but the general public.

If a Muslim kid who was Valedictorian did just go up and say a prayer for the spite of it, then yes I am sure some would cry foul. If my kid went to a school were there were many different religions, I would have no problem with a prayer being said by each group represented. (freedom of speech and religion) It may help bring everyone to a better understanding of each others religion.

 

I would only object to some Satan worshiper saying a prayer for darnation for all.

 

But to keep those who want the prayer from doing it because of 1 person who objects is not right.

Edited June 6, 201115 yr by rockmom

I'm confused how this is even an issue. Were we not a nation founded under the principle of "separation of church and state"?

 

Public schools are government funded, thus "state institutions", thus religion of any kind should not be allowed to be practiced.

 

What am I missing?

 

"Separation of Church and State" is a phrase that doesn't appear anywhere in the Constitution so it's tricky to use that as basis for a founding principle. As Clyde said, the issue here is the Establishment Clause of the First Amdendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

 

The debate is whether those words effectively create a wall between religion and government or whether it is specifically a ban on Congress creating a state church. If it is the former, then the principle of "separation of church and state" is one enshrined in law. If it is the latter, then Congress simply may not create a national church but the law has no effect on the public acknowledgement of God or religion.

 

The problems in Constitutional Law arise because many sections, following their ratifications, were not questioned or challenged for a century or more. It is further complicated by subsequent law such as the 14th Amendment, which applied certain aspects of the Federal Constitution to the states. Prior to the 19th century and certainly before Amendment 14, several states did have official religions.

"Separation of Church and State" is a phrase that doesn't appear anywhere in the Constitution so it's tricky to use that as basis for a founding principle. As Clyde said, the issue here is the Establishment Clause of the First Amdendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

 

The debate is whether those words effectively create a wall between religion and government or whether it is specifically a ban on Congress creating a state church. If it is the former, then the principle of "separation of church and state" is one enshrined in law. If it is the latter, then Congress simply may not create a national church but the law has no effect on the public acknowledgement of God or religion.

 

The problems in Constitutional Law arise because many sections, following their ratifications, were not questioned or challenged for a century or more. It is further complicated by subsequent law such as the 14th Amendment, which applied certain aspects of the Federal Constitution to the states. Prior to the 19th century and certainly before Amendment 14, several states did have official religions.

 

Kentucky's is basketball.

I'm confused how this is even an issue. Were we not a nation founded under the principle of "separation of church and state"?

 

Public schools are government funded, thus "state institutions", thus religion of any kind should not be allowed to be practiced.

 

What am I missing?

 

Congress begins each session with prayer. The Presidential inauguration has a prayer. Our money has "In God We Trust." The Supreme Court building is littered with a plethora of images from the Old Testament. Over the dome of the Capitol Building is this inscription, which is a reference to the Second Coming of Jesus: "One God, one law, one element and one far off divine event toward which the whole creation moves."

 

The notion of separation of church & state, which is not Constitutional, was implemented in whatever fashion to protect the church from the state. As it is today, we've reversed that initial idea & imagined that it was given to protect the state from the church.

If there are Muslims in the class,by all means let them have a prayer opportunity also... Should not even be a problem.. I've been to functions where several prayers were said....

 

So, if a Muslim student were Valedictorian of his/her class and prepared their speech with a prayer to Allah for their future, you'd have no problem with that Valedictorian delivering that speech, even if the rest of the student body, or even most, were Christian?

Who was it?? Wasn't there a congressman sworn in on a Koran? And wasn't there a huge uproar about that? I've gotta do some digging.

So, if a Muslim student were Valedictorian of his/her class and prepared their speech with a prayer to Allah for their future, you'd have no problem with that Valedictorian delivering that speech, even if the rest of the student body, or even most, were Christian?

Oh course not, as long as a Christian prayer is allowed if someone wanted to offer it... And if another religion was represented let them have the opportunity also..

Oh course not, as long as a Christian prayer is allowed if someone wanted to offer it... And if another religion was represented let them have the opportunity also..

 

I haven't kept up with this particular case. Was a prayer opportunity presented for those of other faiths?

If a Muslim kid who was Valedictorian did just go up and say a prayer for the spite of it, then yes I am sure some would cry foul. If my kid went to a school were there were many different religions, I would have no problem with a prayer being said by each group represented. (freedom of speech and religion) It may help bring everyone to a better understanding of each others religion.

 

I would only object to some Satan worshiper saying a prayer for darnation for all.

 

But to keep those who want the prayer from doing it because of 1 person who objects is not right.

 

 

The Church of Satan is recognized as a Religion.They just choose not to be tax exempt.Would you object for a student that is a member of The Church of Scientology saying a Scientology prayer?

How about a student that is a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church?

How about a student that is a member of the Church of Christ?During prayer the student speaks about musical instruments used during worship is a sin and if you are not baptized you will not make it to heaven.:confused:

Edited June 7, 201115 yr by ADopted ADmiral