Where is the law for free speech and freedom of religion? Doesn't it work both ways.

 

The funniest part of this is this.

The judge declared that the Schultz family and their son would “suffer irreparable harm” if anyone prayed at the ceremony.

 

How pathetic our court system has become.

 

One kid does get it right.

It’s just a big surprise that one kid can come in and change what’s been a tradition since Medina Valley started,” student Abigail Russell told KABB-TV.

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/#ixzz1OASRIG77

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/02/prayer-prohibited-at-graduation-ceremony/#ixzz1OARfTWrfe funniest part of this is this.

How many of these are you going to start? We have beaten it to death.

 

You think the Constitution should be ignored. Others do not.

 

Next.

I will continue to beat it to death.

 

Let me ask this of you Clyde, should those who want to say a prayer be allowed to do so? Is this a violation of their freedom of speech or religion? I guess in a case of reverse discrimination.

 

Plus I would really like to know if you think this is JUST STUPID on peoples part that do this in these situations. I mean stupid as in cant they just hear a 1 or 2 minuet prayer and it not affect them.

 

And since you say you are a Christian, dont you think this is a decline in Christianity and values in our country.

Quick question.. Is atheism a religion? I wouldn't think so, but is there any kind of organization they would join or belong to and if so is it tax exempt..

I dont think atheism is a religion.

 

Lots of things are tax exempt, but what they would be part of I have no clue.

 

Clyde can probably answer that better than I can.

“I’ve never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government,” Abbott told Fox News Radio. “It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment.”

Judge Biery’s ruling banned students and other speakers from using religious language in their speeches. Among the banned words or phrases are: “join in prayer,” “bow their heads,” “amen,” and “prayer.”

He also ordered the school district to remove the terms “invocation” and “benediction” from the graduation program.

“These terms shall be replaced with ‘opening remarks’ and ‘closing remarks,'” the judge’s order stated. His ruling also prohibits anyone from saying, “in [a deity’s name] we pray.”

I do not think the Attorney General would be this upset if the valedictorian was a Muslim who was going to thank Allah and Mohammed. Or if during their speech they asked everyone to recite the first chapter of the Koran, "The Opening."

 

“I’ve never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government,” Abbott told Fox News Radio. “It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment.”

Judge Biery’s ruling banned students and other speakers from using religious language in their speeches. Among the banned words or phrases are: “join in prayer,” “bow their heads,” “amen,” and “prayer.”

He also ordered the school district to remove the terms “invocation” and “benediction” from the graduation program.

“These terms shall be replaced with ‘opening remarks’ and ‘closing remarks,'” the judge’s order stated. His ruling also prohibits anyone from saying, “in [a deity’s name] we pray.”

I do not think the Attorney General would be this upset if the valedictorian was a Muslim who was going to thank Allah and Mohammed. Or if during their speech they asked everyone to recite the first chapter of the Koran, "The Opening."

 

I will continue to beat it to death.

 

Let me ask this of you Clyde, should those who want to say a prayer be allowed to do so? Is this a violation of their freedom of speech or religion? I guess in a case of reverse discrimination.

 

Plus I would really like to know if you think this is JUST STUPID on peoples part that do this in these situations. I mean stupid as in cant they just hear a 1 or 2 minuet prayer and it not affect them.

 

And since you say you are a Christian, dont you think this is a decline in Christianity and values in our country.

 

 

I'll take the bait...

 

EVERYBODY is entitled to pray however they feel they should given their particular belief system. This is not a violation of their freedom of religion.

 

EVERYBODY is permitted to pray out loud in their church, in their house, on the sidewalk, in a public park, on the radio, etc... Constitutionally, there can not be the appearance of an establishment of a particular religion at a taxpayer funded event such as graduation. In the grand scheme of things, one prayer at graduation is probably not that big of a deal. While I won't go as far as to say that this is "just stupid" these particular arguments are arguably frivolous. All of us can argue all day as to how far is too far, but per the supreme law of the land, this activity of a violation. Additionally, the Supreme Court has interpreted this conduct the same way for years.

 

This particular situation has been beaten to death, the situation is pretty simple. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Subsidized education? Even if the class is 100% Christian, technically, absolutely no favoritism towards any particular faith. Answer, fork out the dough for a private school, or pray all you want quietly. I would also argue that this protection should be even heightened with a school setting given the threat of publicly funded indoctrination.

 

I'm a proud Christian, and a Catholic one at that. In my opinion, society in general has seen a decline of values. We have also seen an increase in Christians picking and choosing which parts of the Bible/their religion they wish to follow and disregarding the rest. Unfortunately, this has been mirrored in society by people using the Constitution when it helps their argument, and disregarding it when things aren't how they wish them to be. If the Constitution means anything, it offers protections when they may be unpopular.

 

If you're really worried about the decline of values and Christianity, attack the man who sits in the front pew on Sunday, yet hits his wife on Tuesday, or the parent who spends their paycheck at the liquor store instead of putting food on the table. Otherwise, we're left with talking points with such blatant holes in them, that frankly they come across as ridiculous.

^ Thank you.

I will continue to beat it to death.

 

Let me ask this of you Clyde, should those who want to say a prayer be allowed to do so? Is this a violation of their freedom of speech or religion? I guess in a case of reverse discrimination.

 

Plus I would really like to know if you think this is JUST STUPID on peoples part that do this in these situations. I mean stupid as in cant they just hear a 1 or 2 minuet prayer and it not affect them.

 

And since you say you are a Christian, dont you think this is a decline in Christianity and values in our country.

 

As to your "you say your are a Chrstian" shot I'll let that slide.

 

This case seems to be slightly different in it's restrictions but the intent is the same as the others - no school-sponsored prayer which goes along with the Constitution.

 

What could be new (guessing here) is the strict wording as to what an individual kid can say. My guess is that is in response to other graduation ceremonies(like MT Ref has cited) where despite the ruling kids got up and essentially led the school body in prayer.

 

It's easy to say "how can a 2-minute prayer have an effect" when it's your religion that is saying the prayer. Again, if this was the school district in Michigan with a large population of American-Muslims, you and others would be leading the pack if the valedictorian led the student body in a Muslim prayer.

 

If prayer is REALLY important to some of these kids (and I'm guessing it's secondary to the thought of gaining favor with others or gaining notoriety) then have them bow their heads and thank their god like many of us do on a regular basis. God will appreciate the thought.

I'll take the bait...

 

EVERYBODY is entitled to pray however they feel they should given their particular belief system. This is not a violation of their freedom of religion.

 

EVERYBODY is permitted to pray out loud in their church, in their house, on the sidewalk, in a public park, on the radio, etc... Constitutionally, there can not be the appearance of an establishment of a particular religion at a taxpayer funded event such as graduation. In the grand scheme of things, one prayer at graduation is probably not that big of a deal. While I won't go as far as to say that this is "just stupid" these particular arguments are arguably frivolous. All of us can argue all day as to how far is too far, but per the supreme law of the land, this activity of a violation. Additionally, the Supreme Court has interpreted this conduct the same way for years.

 

This particular situation has been beaten to death, the situation is pretty simple. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Subsidized education? Even if the class is 100% Christian, technically, absolutely no favoritism towards any particular faith. Answer, fork out the dough for a private school, or pray all you want quietly. I would also argue that this protection should be even heightened with a school setting given the threat of publicly funded indoctrination.

 

I'm a proud Christian, and a Catholic one at that. In my opinion, society in general has seen a decline of values. We have also seen an increase in Christians picking and choosing which parts of the Bible/their religion they wish to follow and disregarding the rest. Unfortunately, this has been mirrored in society by people using the Constitution when it helps their argument, and disregarding it when things aren't how they wish them to be. If the Constitution means anything, it offers protections when they may be unpopular.

 

If you're really worried about the decline of values and Christianity, attack the man who sits in the front pew on Sunday, yet hits his wife on Tuesday, or the parent who spends their paycheck at the liquor store instead of putting food on the table. Otherwise, we're left with talking points with such blatant holes in them, that frankly they come across as ridiculous.

 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

Could not word it, compose it, or say it any better than that. Well Done. :thumb:

I'll take the bait...

 

EVERYBODY is entitled to pray however they feel they should given their particular belief system. This is not a violation of their freedom of religion.

 

EVERYBODY is permitted to pray out loud in their church, in their house, on the sidewalk, in a public park, on the radio, etc... Constitutionally, there can not be the appearance of an establishment of a particular religion at a taxpayer funded event such as graduation. In the grand scheme of things, one prayer at graduation is probably not that big of a deal. While I won't go as far as to say that this is "just stupid" these particular arguments are arguably frivolous. All of us can argue all day as to how far is too far, but per the supreme law of the land, this activity of a violation. Additionally, the Supreme Court has interpreted this conduct the same way for years.

 

This particular situation has been beaten to death, the situation is pretty simple. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Subsidized education? Even if the class is 100% Christian, technically, absolutely no favoritism towards any particular faith. Answer, fork out the dough for a private school, or pray all you want quietly. I would also argue that this protection should be even heightened with a school setting given the threat of publicly funded indoctrination.

 

I'm a proud Christian, and a Catholic one at that. In my opinion, society in general has seen a decline of values. We have also seen an increase in Christians picking and choosing which parts of the Bible/their religion they wish to follow and disregarding the rest. Unfortunately, this has been mirrored in society by people using the Constitution when it helps their argument, and disregarding it when things aren't how they wish them to be. If the Constitution means anything, it offers protections when they may be unpopular.

 

If you're really worried about the decline of values and Christianity, attack the man who sits in the front pew on Sunday, yet hits his wife on Tuesday, or the parent who spends their paycheck at the liquor store instead of putting food on the table. Otherwise, we're left with talking points with such blatant holes in them, that frankly they come across as ridiculous.

 

Perfectly said.

 

You only have 8 posts. Enlightened posts such as this are needed more frequently. Please take the bait more often.

My question is simple....Would you feel differently if it were a Muslim wanting to pray?

 

Everyone is entitled to pray during the ceremony. Just not aloud and on display. The Bible tells us not to make a show of it anyways, so I'm not sure what your issue is mtn ref?

Perfectly said.

 

You only have 8 posts. Enlightened posts such as this are needed more frequently. Please take the bait more often.

 

:thumb:

Pretty well said, Last Hour, but I think it's important to remember that, as American Catholics, we have a pretty different view on this subject than most of our Protestant friends. The Catholic educational system in this country began because of the rise of public schools in the U.S. that were essentially Protestant. I'd point all those curious about why I'm not a huge proponent of organized prayer in public schools to the Elliot School Rebellion in Massachusetts during the 19th century. A Catholic boy was beaten by his classmates after refusing to read aloud from the King James Bible and the incident led directly to the establishment of the first parish school in Massachusetts. Countless others followed across the country.

 

I'm not saying the the Elliot School Rebellion is going to be copied or happen again, but the reason these laws exist is not to keep down Christianity or make it so people can't do what they want. It's for that one kid...