Don't know.

 

I don't know how they could be anything but government sponsored.

I don't know how they could be anything but government sponsored.

 

My "don't know" was in regards to the legal differentiators involved in the specific issue of state-sponsored prayer.

My "don't know" was in regards to the legal differentiators involved in the specific issue of state-sponsored prayer.

 

Gotcha.

 

I'm still failing to see how the government's hand can be so covering two events--at a public, taxpayer-supported school graduation & at a public, taxpayer-supported Presidential inauguration--and yet prayer is disallowed at one while wholeheartedly endorsed at the other.

Gotcha.

 

I'm still failing to see how the government's hand can be so covering two events--at a public, taxpayer-supported school graduation & at a public, taxpayer-supported Presidential inauguration--and yet prayer is disallowed at one while wholeheartedly endorsed at the other.

 

Again, one event is optional to attend while the other is not. I'm going with that as the probable reasoning.

Students are forced to attend their own graduation?

Students are forced to attend their own graduation?

 

Students are forced to be educated and like football games the courts have said this falls under the same umbrella as prayer in school.

Students are forced to be educated and like football games the courts have said this falls under the same umbrella as prayer in school.

 

Though I personally disagree with how courts have ruled on your first point (students forced to be educated), I can accept that from a legal perspective. The latter part about football games, however, is blatantly inconsistent & makes moot the point that one event is optioned to attend & the other forced. Football is an optioned event.

No.

 

 

 

 

Irrelevant to the argument. It IS the law and it's not anti-Christian.

 

it seems pretty anti-christian to me.

it seems pretty anti-christian to me.

 

How so?

 

The Bible is very clear in stating that prayer should not be done for show, and should be done in private. This seems to allow for Christians to follow what the Bible asks of them with regards to prayer.

Well then why all of a sudden have all of these laws started being enforced. I mean it has been done for decades. To restrict a group from praying IMO is against freedom of speech and religion. And thus anti-Christian.

 

Where does it say you should pray in private.

How so?

 

The Bible is very clear in stating that prayer should not be done for show, and should be done in private. This seems to allow for Christians to follow what the Bible asks of them with regards to prayer.

 

I think a lack of context is a problem with your interpretation here. The passage at Matthew 6:5 says: "And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men . . . ." He's talking about praying in public for the express purpose of having people see you praying. I can't imagine that Christ was advocating that praying in the presence of other people is a bad idea. Certainly he did it on many occasions himself.

 

Note: I don't want this to be taken as though I disagree with you. In the current national climate and under current federal law, I think the judge's ruling was probably correct.

Well then why all of a sudden have all of these laws started being enforced. I mean it has been done for decades. To restrict a group from praying IMO is against freedom of speech and religion. And thus anti-Christian.

 

Where does it say you should pray in private.

 

No one is restricting anyone from praying. Not sure where the heck you're coming up with this stuff.

 

Matthew 6: 5-7

 

""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

I think a lack of context is a problem with your interpretation here. The passage at Matthew 6:5 says: "And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men . . . ." He's talking about praying in public for the express purpose of having people see you praying. I can't imagine that Christ was advocating that praying in the presence of other people is a bad idea. Certainly he did it on many occasions himself.

 

So what's the next part: "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father" referring to?

I think a lack of context is a problem with your interpretation here. The passage at Matthew 6:5 says: "And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men . . . ." He's talking about praying in public for the express purpose of having people see you praying. I can't imagine that Christ was advocating that praying in the presence of other people is a bad idea. Certainly he did it on many occasions himself.

 

I actually posted the entire text for Mt Ref in another thread but he's obviously forgot it again. Jesus was speaking for non-worship events or worship events that had become more formula/tradition than real.

 

As to your bolded, for me, that is the crux of the theological debate here. I can't help but see so many who push for a public prayer (not worship but public events) and/or Ten Commandments as individuals who merely want to "show others" these things. (prayer and scripture) I think when it comes to that it violates the heart of prayer and the heart of the commandments as well. Theologically speaking I hear the prophets speak about God preferring "rended hearts" over "sacrifices."

So what's the next part: "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father" referring to?

 

His point was that the hypocrites love to shout their prayers out loud on the street corners, but that when they go home, they have no interior spiritual life. It is how one prays or what one does when nobody is looking that is the true measure of faith. There is absolute value in prayer itself. A prayer said alone in the silence of your bedroom has great power. When taking that passage too literally, we run the risk of taking Christ's words to mean that we shouldn't pray in public at all, which I don't think is accurate. Though it's interesting to note that nearly every time Jesus prayed in the Bible, he went off to do so alone. The only times he really prayed in public were short prayers of thanksgiving, usually as pertained to food.