Do you REALLY believe that the Palestinians want peace?

 

Palestinians? Yes. Hamas and Hizbollah? Not really.

Hundreds of years? You mean 60, right?

 

I believe there was hate between the two well before Israel was created, wasn't there?

Isaac and Ishmael anybody?

Hundreds of years? You mean 60, right?

 

No, I mean hundreds. Jews and Muslims have been fighted pretty much since Islam was founded. And if you think the Jews giving back some land is going to stop that your crazy. If Israel gives back that land they might as well bend over and get ready.

No, I mean hundreds. Jews and Muslims have been fighted pretty much since Islam was founded. And if you think the Jews giving back some land is going to stop that your crazy. If Israel gives back that land they might as well bend over and get ready.

 

Could we trace similar history between Christians and Jews through 2,000 years?

Could we trace similar history between Christians and Jews through 2,000 years?

 

I truly don't know how the histories compare but what does that have to do with the Israel/Palenstine issue before us now?

I truly don't know how the histories compare but what does that have to do with the Israel/Palenstine issue before us now?

 

Just wondering if the Christian/Jewish issues (ghettos, Inquisition, persecution, etc.) have seemingly waned over the centuries, could not Arab/Palestinian/Jewish relations do the same? (Given time and historical patience)

Just wondering if the Christian/Jewish issues (ghettos, Inquisition, persecution, etc.) have seemingly waned over the centuries, could not Arab/Palestinian/Jewish relations do the same? (Given time and historical patience)

 

In the 1940s Israel tried to incorporate the native Arabs (what was left of them after many fled the region) into the newly formed state and society. But they were promised by the Arab nation states that Israel would be wiped out in short order and they could return to a Jewish-free land. That was in 1948. In 1949 the war ended with Egypt taking control of Gaza and Jordon took the West Bank. There really never was a 'Palestine' nation. There was no conquered nation-state. The Arab nation states leaders use the 'Palestinian issue' as a way to control their own masses in their dictator or mullah run countries and deflect pressure from themselves. The Palestinians have mostly been a political football of a group since 1948.

In the 1940s Israel tried to incorporate the native Arabs (what was left of them after many fled the region) into the newly formed state and society. But they were promised by the Arab nation states that Israel would be wiped out in short order and they could return to a Jewish-free land. That was in 1948. In 1949 the war ended with Egypt taking control of Gaza and Jordon took the West Bank. There really never was a 'Palestine' nation. There was no conquered nation-state. The Arab nation states leaders use the 'Palestinian issue' as a way to control their own masses in their dictator or mullah run countries and deflect pressure from themselves. The Palestinians have mostly been a political football of a group since 1948.

 

This may be true for Iran, but Egypt and Jordan have a legitimate beef as this conflict has caused hundreds of thousands of refugees to flood their borders in the last 60 years. They deal with it daily.

In the 1940s Israel tried to incorporate the native Arabs (what was left of them after many fled the region) into the newly formed state and society. But they were promised by the Arab nation states that Israel would be wiped out in short order and they could return to a Jewish-free land. That was in 1948. In 1949 the war ended with Egypt taking control of Gaza and Jordon took the West Bank. There really never was a 'Palestine' nation. There was no conquered nation-state. The Arab nation states leaders use the 'Palestinian issue' as a way to control their own masses in their dictator or mullah run countries and deflect pressure from themselves. The Palestinians have mostly been a political football of a group since 1948.

 

Don't know if it helps with the above but found a great page on Population trends prior to 1948 and after the Israel was established.

 

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

 

Thought this was interesting: By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times.

 

It's quite possible your assertion above is correct but one can see resentment that that actual population majority (in terms of ethnicity) was "offered to be included" by the minority who were now "in charge" as it were. :thumb:

This may be true for Iran, but Egypt and Jordan have a legitimate beef as this conflict has caused hundreds of thousands of refugees to flood their borders in the last 60 years. They deal with it daily.

 

Don't know if it helps with the above but found a great page on Population trends prior to 1948 and after the Israel was established.

 

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

 

 

 

Thought this was interesting: By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times.

 

It's quite possible your assertion above is correct but one can see resentment that that actual population majority (in terms of ethnicity) was "offered to be included" by the minority who were now "in charge" as it were. :thumb:

 

In some ways I believe the original source of the tension is the Crusades. Christians were the original invaders of the Arab lands and the Arabs have always felt a need to resist the outsiders. It gave rise the militant functions of Islam that seems to carry on somewhat today. The Crusades seem to be more bloody than anything of modern times and that legacy of invasion seems to have set the Arab peoples mindset for centuries now.

 

It is a stretch but it seems the Jewish people and the Palestinian people have more in common than differences. A minority peoples who were (or currently are) used for political power and gain by others. The Jewish people in the 1930s and 1940s and the Palestinian people since 1948. It is a shame that invasions by a separate religious function centuries before may cause these two peoples who have common challenges to be so much at odds.

I've always believed that it's as important to know your limitations as it is to know your strengths. One of my limitations is the ability to speak intelligently on Israel. So I will not debate anyone on the validity of the request made by President Obama.

 

However, I must ask. What is different now than when President Bush suggested this a few years ago? I do not remember the hue and cry that we are seeing today. What is different?

I've always believed that it's as important to know your limitations as it is to know your strengths. One of my limitations is the ability to speak intelligently on Israel. So I will not debate anyone on the validity of the request made by President Obama.

 

However, I must ask. What is different now than when President Bush suggested this a few years ago? I do not remember the hue and cry that we are seeing today. What is different?

 

I'd love to see the two statements side by side to see what, if any difference there was in them. I've read contradicting articles.

I'd love to see the two statements side by side to see what, if any difference there was in them. I've read contradicting articles.

 

I found this from President Bush:

 

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050526.html

 

and this video from CNN a day or so after President Obama made his statements:

 

When I read "mutually agreed upon" why do I not get the same feeling that Mt Ref and Mitt Romney and Newt get that the President is "dictating terms?"