That is your verbage. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said.

 

The fact is no one is "giving" anything to those that as you said have plenty. It comes down to how much is taken from them. If you think they are getting more, you are mistaken. Again it is how much is taken from them.

The fact is no one is "giving" anything to those that as you said have plenty. It comes down to how much is taken from them. If you think they are getting more, you are mistaken. Again it is how much is taken from them.

 

I disagree. There are all kinds of subsidies for oil, corn, tobacco, big farms, etc.

 

Reducing the price you pay to function in a system that allows you to make money is giving you money.

I disagree. There are all kinds of subsidies for oil, corn, tobacco, big farms, etc.

 

Reducing the price you pay to function in a system that allows you to make money is giving you money.

Right there, and you could have thrown in bailout money also. But to pay for all of this you have to tax someone. And part of this discussion is wrapped around taxes. Who pays and who does not. The Bush taxes did not give, they take less. It is the whole premise of lowering taxes. I pay taxes. No one has or will ever give me a dime. They will just take more or less. Until my net income is more than my gross, you will not convince me to the contrary. Personally I prefer that less is taken. I do not prefer that anyone gives me anything. Maybe just an intrinsic difference between me and you.

Right there, and you could have thrown in bailout money also. But to pay for all of this you have to tax someone. And part of this discussion is wrapped around taxes. Who pays and who does not. The Bush taxes did not give, they take less. It is the whole premise of lowering taxes. I pay taxes. No one has or will ever give me a dime. They will just take more or less. Until my net income is more than my gross, you will not convince me to the contrary. Personally I prefer that less is taken. I do not prefer that anyone gives me anything. Maybe just an intrinsic difference between me and you.

 

I see taxes as a fee so if your fee to participate is lowered, then you are given more money. You could also choose not to participate in the system and get even more money. But if you want to have a well organized functioning country there is a fee. Those who benefit most from the system have a bigger fee.

What is a fair tax rate Ace?

 

Fair to whom?

No choice to participate?

 

I think I am turning into a complete anarchist reading your posts Ace!

No choice to participate?

 

I think I am turning into a complete anarchist reading your posts Ace!

 

I don't think the Amish are anarchists, but they choose to not participate in all aspects of our society. You can go live on a farm, grow your own food, dig your own well, build your own wind turbine, and not worry much about income and income taxes. There will be some local property tax to pay for the police etc., to keep people from coming and stealing your stuff but other than that, have at it. If you want to take full advantage of the American system then expect to pay a fee.

I don't think the Amish are anarchists, but they choose to not participate in all aspects of our society. You can go live on a farm, grow your own food, dig your own well, build your own wind turbine, and not worry much about income and income taxes. There will be some local property tax to pay for the police etc., to keep people from coming and stealing your stuff but other than that, have at it. If you want to take full advantage of the American system then expect to pay a fee.

 

But what about those that live in urban blight Ace? They don't choose to participate in our society, and don't worry much about income and income taxes. Plus they get paid not to work, and extra cash if they have more children. They pay no fee, and as far as I can see take full advantage of the American system and don't pay a fee. That's a better choice.

The same is true if you drive on the road, accept police protection, expect children to have decent schools, want the military to defend us, are willing to accept medicare, plan on having some social security, want reasonably safe airports, have radio, TV, cell phones that work in some kind of reasonable order, and ALL OF THE OTHER BENEFITS you recieve, but are constantly wanting to reduce the revenue that is used to pay for them.

 

All you people that want to cut taxes, quit using the systems provided for by those taxes, or you are simply being hypocritical.

 

Or we could make the people living off the government perform some of the jobs and services that the bolded provides. Instead of just giving them the money.

 

Here's the thing. I have potholes on my street. A lot of times our street is filthy. There are parks that need kept up. There are city/county buildings that need to be repaired, painted...etc. We're paying these folks, have them earn at least some of it.

But what about those that live in urban blight Ace? They don't choose to participate in our society, and don't worry much about income and income taxes. Plus they get paid not to work, and extra cash if they have more children. They pay no fee, and as far as I can see take full advantage of the American system and don't pay a fee. That's a better choice.

 

You have any statistics as to how many people you are talking about? How does living in blight "take full advantage of the American system." In one of the HUD developments in my community, most of the people there are older folks and have some type of disability. But I absolutely know that many don't have cars, they are not travelling on the interstate or flying out of our airports, or benefitting from the stock market. So they absolutely are not taking full advantage of the system. They are eking by.

Or we could make the people living off the government perform some of the jobs and services that the bolded provides. Instead of just giving them the money.

 

Here's the thing. I have potholes on my street. A lot of times our street is filthy. There are parks that need kept up. There are city/county buildings that need to be repaired, painted...etc. We're paying these folks, have them earn at least some of it.

 

Why hasn't this ever been brought up by any president or congress? Including when republican presidents enjoyed a republican congress?

 

FWIW, I would have no trouble supporting it.

You have any statistics as to how many people you are talking about? How does living in blight "take full advantage of the American system." In one of the HUD developments in my community, most of the people there are older folks and have some type of disability. But I absolutely know that many don't have cars, they are not travelling on the interstate or flying out of our airports, or benefitting from the stock market. So they absolutely are not taking full advantage of the system. They are eking by.

 

So the disabled never call 911 to have ambulance or fire or police help? Please...Because you are not wealthy does not mean you are not benefitting from the govenment in many ways without paying a penny.

Why hasn't this ever been brought up by any president or congress? Including when republican presidents enjoyed a republican congress?

 

FWIW, I would have no trouble supporting it.

Good question. My guess is it wouldn't go over very well and would probably cost votes. I absolutely think it is a good idea.

Good question. My guess is it wouldn't go over very well and would probably cost votes. I absolutely think it is a good idea.

 

Agreed. Tell them there's a rock wall that the government needs built and their paycheck is under the pile of rock's.

I see taxes as a fee so if your fee to participate is lowered, then you are given more money. You could also choose not to participate in the system and get even more money. But if you want to have a well organized functioning country there is a fee. Those who benefit most from the system have a bigger fee.

 

What is this notion about someone giving me money? Or "get" money as you put it? I haven't quite figured that angle out. As far as I have it figured, I wake up early every day, I go to a place. I perform certain tasks at this place, and I then get a pay check. I look at that paycheck and I see a nice figure at the top, and guess what, by the time I get to the bottom figure, that number has decreased significantly. Now again, from the top, who is "giving" me anything?