A great and undoubtably true article!! Terrible timing!!

If you are blaming Wooden for who players picked for an agent at graduation you better be ready to blame Coach Cal for 2 vacated final fours.

The Bear helped many a kid back in the 50s/60s, and folks knew about it. NCAA finally grew up in the 70s.

Ok if other coaches are going to be let off the hook for their indiscretions why not Rupp? Why does stuff involving many different areas keep going through the grinder with Coach Rupp and the Wooden's of the world are chalked up to helping kids? It's a clear and concise double standard, and I agree with the part of Bryant "helping" kids, but Wooden and Gilbert went way beyond helping kids.

Ok if other coaches are going to be let off the hook for their indiscretions why not Rupp? Why does stuff involving many different areas keep going through the grinder with Coach Rupp and the Wooden's of the world are chalked up to helping kids? It's a clear and concise double standard, and I agree with the part of Bryant "helping" kids, but Wooden and Gilbert went way beyond helping kids.

 

Well I would argue there is a huge difference in helping kids and whether or not you hated a kid based on their race. And I by no means am convinced he is a racist but that is the main thing I see bashing Rupp all the time. But, would you also be willing to say Cal cheated? The things that article associates with coach wooden are no more connected to him than the things that have caused Cal to have two final fours vacated..

Well I would argue there is a huge difference in helping kids and whether or not you hated a kid based on their race. And I by no means am convinced he is a racist but that is the main thing I see bashing Rupp all the time. But, would you also be willing to say Cal cheated? The things that article associates with coach wooden are no more connected to him than the things that have caused Cal to have two final fours vacated..

 

But none of Wooden's wins have been "vacated", true? That is the difference that gets to some people I think.

But none of Wooden's wins have been "vacated", true? That is the difference that gets to some people I think.

 

Very true, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say Wooden is a cheater and then complain when people call Cal a cheater, regardless of what the NCAA did.

Very true, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't say Wooden is a cheater and then complain when people call Cal a cheater, regardless of what the NCAA did.

 

But a lot of people think it IS the NCAA's agenda that makes it what it is. Look the other way(UCLA) or, dig until you find something even if it is after the fact. (Coach Cal)

This is more than simply, "Helping a kid out."

 

Nor is this an absolution of Carroll. Just because Wooden was allowed to look the other way while Gilbert was providing his players with money, housing, cars, furs and -- allegedly -- abortions for their girlfriends, that doesn't mean Carroll should have been allowed to look the other way while Bush's people were allegedly receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of goods and services from a marketing rep.

Clearly Doyel knows what he's doing, it would get the most hits by posting it now. I don't disagree with anything he said, but don't like the lean on Pete Carroll almost being an innocent lamb.

 

:thumb:

The argument with Wooden is if his integrity was so high why did he turn the deaf ear to this for so long? Furthermore, how did Cal get into this, his was two isolated incidents that for all purposes he knew nothing about. I'm not convinced for one second John Wooden didn't know or have working knowledge into the doings of Sam Gilbert. If you're going to allude to Rupp and racism, which no credible person has substantiated, the difference is in the proof with there being plenty first hand accounts by credible people in the world of John Wooden. This is nothing more than media bias against one percieved intellectual and one who the media portrys has an ignorant racist with no proof. Truth be told it was probably Rupp, who had a degree from Columbia, who was the true intellectually superior being between the two!

The argument with Wooden is if his integrity was so high why did he turn the deaf ear to this for so long? Furthermore, how did Cal get into this, his was two isolated incidents that for all purposes he knew nothing about. I'm not convinced for one second John Wooden didn't know or have working knowledge into the doings of Sam Gilbert. If you're going to allude to Rupp and racism, which no credible person has substantiated, the difference is in the proof with there being plenty first hand accounts by credible people in the world of John Wooden. This is nothing more than media bias against one percieved intellectual and one who the media portrys has an ignorant racist with no proof. Truth be told it was probably Rupp, who had a degree from Columbia, who was the true intellectually superior being between the two!

 

In the HBO documentary (which I highly recommend BTW), Wooden replies to the question of Sam Gilbert by saying, "He was a supporter and a booster who I wish would not have been as involved as he was." (or something to those words) I think Gilbert was his largest regret probably.

 

I've always admired Wooden's ability to adapt his style with those great teams.

 

He won with pressing and guard play with the Hazzard/Goodrich era.

 

He won with Great Centers in Alcindor & Walton.

 

He won with a solid/athletic front court in Wicks/Rowe

 

He won when he got the breaks in '75. If UK doesn't upset IU, and/or Scott May does not break his arm, UCLA does not win the '75 crown. I believe they could not have matched the physical/athletic combo the Hoosiers possessed that year.

I would love to know the follow up question to that answer, he should have been drilled out that topic over and over again but somehow never was. There has been this unwritten law that this man was above being inquired about what was in any way you call it cheating!

The argument with Wooden is if his integrity was so high why did he turn the deaf ear to this for so long? Furthermore, how did Cal get into this, his was two isolated incidents that for all purposes he knew nothing about. I'm not convinced for one second John Wooden didn't know or have working knowledge into the doings of Sam Gilbert. If you're going to allude to Rupp and racism, which no credible person has substantiated, the difference is in the proof with there being plenty first hand accounts by credible people in the world of John Wooden. This is nothing more than media bias against one percieved intellectual and one who the media portrys has an ignorant racist with no proof. Truth be told it was probably Rupp, who had a degree from Columbia, who was the true intellectually superior being between the two!

 

Cal got in to this because all his supporters say you can't control what individual players do. Well Wooden couldn't control who players talked to when he wasn't there and couldn't control who became their agent in the pros. So if Wooden is a cheater, then Cal is a cheater. You can't argue it any other way. If you want to call Wooden one get in line to Cal one.

Maybe I'm confused, but it appears to me that Doyel wrote the article in May of 2009? Am I wrong?

 

I'm glad you said it cause I was thinking the same thing when I read the article. However, the few things I've read from Doyel could definately have had me believing he wrote this article the very day Wooden passed. He has a tendency to shoot for the shock value.

 

As to the content. This allegation has long been out there. This is nothing new. And still it doesn't seem to tarnish my opinion of Wooden. Even Doyel has to admit that when it came to character few people can rival John Wooden as tops.