Let me remind people that I do not think Palmer is the main issue. But I do not think we will EVER win anything with him under center. That's just my opinion.

 

So far with him under center we have made two playoff appearances. We have no clue how that first one would have played out with him. How many playoff appearances had we had in all the years before him since 1991?

 

This team can win with him. Is he a guy who can do great with any WR like a Manning or a Favre, NO. However is he a guy who they can with and do something in the playoffs, if they just actually give him some talent on offense, yes definitely!

Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Todd Heap, Antonio Gates, Vincent Jackson. These are all guys these QB's have to throw the ball to, what does Palmer have? Just Chad Johnson who is definitely not in his prime anymore. Do all these teams have better offensive coordinators than the Bengals, no doubt. The only guy you listed who doesn't have to much to work with either, but probably still has better talent to throw to is Eli, and how did he do this year?

 

You are kidding yourself if you don't look at the big picture of things. To many of you want to look back at 2005 and compare that to now. Things are way different now than they were then. A lot of talent, compared to no not much now. You are kidding yourself if you think the Bengals are better off with having someone else at QB. You are kidding yourself if you think the offense wouldn't do much better with some more talent at receiver and a new OC. Yes Palmer has missed some passes, but its also probably hard to do when your receivers can't get any seperation. He basically knows he has to make a perfect pass, or else they won't catch it. He is trying to hard with it now. Once again you are just kidding yourself if you do think this team is better off without him. Put some more talent around him, and you will see how silly you sound to act like he is the main problem for the passing offense.

 

Personally I am starting to think most of my fellow Cincinnati fans are crazy. We just made the playoffs, and we have guys wanting to get rid of our QB. I doubt many teams are wanting to get rid of a QB after a playoff run. You all act like it is so easy to find a QB, that would do good. We are lucky to have him, and a lot of teams would like to have him. We are better off with him than without him. If we get some talent at receiver to throw too, and have other guys besides people who were 4th on the depth chart at TE to throw too, then you will see that.

 

Relax, dude, you are throwing a tantrum.

 

Somehow the Bengals seemed to have enough talent on their 2009 team to make the playoffs. They're not exactly devoid of talent. CJ is still a good WR. Not elite anymore, but pretty good. As of one year ago, everyone thought Coles was an incredible pickup, including you as I recall. Suddenly he's no longer any good anymore either. Maybe it's just remotely possible that superstar Palmer is the one making them look bad. He has a pretty solid OL in front of him. Not awesome, but pretty darn good.

 

You obviously are enthralled with the guy and that's great. We're all entitled to our opinions. But there's simply no question he's been on a steady decline the past few years and was a big part of the overall problems for the Bengals' offense. You are more than welcome to believe that it all falls on the WR's and OC, but it doesn't. And whether we are run-first or pass-first or ball-control or whatever is irrelevent. He's a pro NFL QB, not a pee wee player. When he's asked to pass, he's expected to be reasonably accurate. He's allowed his occasional misses, but he misses far too often these days. And I assure you he's allowed as much flexibility to change plays at the line as ever.

 

I guess I will be forced to fall into masses of "ignorant, uninformed, crazy, etc..." Bengal fans that aren't gifted with the same intellectual insight as you . . .

Relax, dude, you are throwing a tantrum.

 

Somehow the Bengals seemed to have enough talent on their 2009 team to make the playoffs. They're not exactly devoid of talent. CJ is still a good WR. Not elite anymore, but pretty good. As of one year ago, everyone thought Coles was an incredible pickup, including you as I recall. Suddenly he's no longer any good anymore either. Maybe it's just remotely possible that superstar Palmer is the one making them look bad. He has a pretty solid OL in front of him. Not awesome, but pretty darn good.

 

You obviously are enthralled with the guy and that's great. We're all entitled to our opinions. But there's simply no question he's been on a steady decline the past few years and was a big part of the overall problems for the Bengals' offense. You are more than welcome to believe that it all falls on the WR's and OC, but it doesn't. And whether we are run-first or pass-first or ball-control or whatever is irrelevent. He's a pro NFL QB, not a pee wee player. When he's asked to pass, he's expected to be reasonably accurate. He's allowed his occasional misses, but he misses far too often these days. And I assure you he's allowed as much flexibility to change plays at the line as he's ever been allowed.

 

I guess I will be forced to fall into masses of "ignorant, uninformed, crazy, etc..." Bengal fans that aren't gifted with the same intellectual insight as you . . .

 

You obviously know the argument I have made. You however seem to be someone who wants just to base things on what you saw, and not look at the big picture. So lets talk about things that we saw shall we. I hate to bring this up, because of what happened to Chris Henry. However how was this team when Henry was on the team, and how was it once he no longer was? Do you remember really anyone saying that many bad things about Palmer before Henry was no longer playing? Palmer led the team what should have been 4 game winning drives if they don't blow it against Denver. He had really big games against the Packers, Bears, and the first half of the second Ravens game before the Henry injury. The Bengals offense was also NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in red zone scoring up to that point, and NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in scoring with two minutes to go in halfs up to that point. To be able to do all that, you must have a pretty decent QB. So up until that point there was not much bad you could say about Palmer. Yeah we still weren't scoring a ton, but that was by design since they wanted to run control the clock. The offense basically was doing what it was suppose to. However once they lost what honestly probably was their most talented Receiver in Henry, that is when we seen Palmer and the offense just go down hill. I mean you really can't deny that. So when Palmer had Henry he was much better. Without him, and only have Chad yeah he didn't do so great. Not to hard to see, when he has a couple of talented guys, Palmer still can do good.

 

So yeah when people say he is nothing more than a backup, and they need a new QB. I think they are crazy. Its really not that hard to see, if you have talent for him to throw to that he still does good. I mean this season is the perfect example of that. When he had Henry, the offense and Palmer did much better. Then when they lost him, the offense and Palmer didnt do well at all. That basically shows that with some talent Palmer on this offense can get it done and no reason to be saying they need a new QB.

It really just comes down to this. Is Palmer as good as Manning, Brady, Favre, no is he not. Is he a guy they can win with and do something in the playoffs with, definitely! Put some talent around him, and they would be just fine. The man didn't have much talent around him this year, and they still made the playoffs. So its just crazy to say that the Bengals need a new QB, when their QB just made the playoffs when not having much to work with. This team would be a lot worst off without Palmer.

You obviously know the argument I have made. You however seem to be someone who wants just to base things on what you saw, and not look at the big picture. So lets talk about things that we saw shall we. I hate to bring this up, because of what happened to Chris Henry. However how was this team when Henry was on the team, and how was it once he no longer was? Do you remember really anyone saying that many bad things about Palmer before Henry was no longer playing? Palmer led the team what should have been 4 game winning drives if they don't blow it against Denver. He had really big games against the Packers, Bears, and the first half of the second Ravens game before the Henry injury. The Bengals offense was also NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in red zone scoring up to that point, and NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in scoring with two minutes to go in halfs up to that point. To be able to do all that, you must have a pretty decent QB. So up until that point there was not much bad you could say about Palmer. Yeah we still weren't scoring a ton, but that was by design since they wanted to run control the clock. The offense basically was doing what it was suppose to. However once they lost what honestly probably was their most talented Receiver in Henry, that is when we seen Palmer and the offense just go down hill. I mean you really can't deny that. So when Palmer had Henry he was much better. Without him, and only have Chad yeah he didn't do so great. Not to hard to see, when he has a couple of talented guys, Palmer still can do good.

 

So yeah when people say he is nothing more than a backup, and they need a new QB. I think they are crazy. Its really not that hard to see, if you have talent for him to throw to that he still does good. I mean this season is the perfect example of that. When he had Henry, the offense and Palmer did much better. Then when they lost him, the offense and Palmer didnt do well at all. That basically shows that with some talent Palmer on this offense can get it done and no reason to be saying they need a new QB.

 

At 6'5, Henry was the only one capable of catching Palmer's misfires.

You obviously know the argument I have made. You however seem to be someone who wants just to base things on what you saw, and not look at the big picture. So lets talk about things that we saw shall we. I hate to bring this up, because of what happened to Chris Henry. However how was this team when Henry was on the team, and how was it once he no longer was? Do you remember really anyone saying that many bad things about Palmer before Henry was no longer playing? Palmer led the team what should have been 4 game winning drives if they don't blow it against Denver. He had really big games against the Packers, Bears, and the first half of the second Ravens game before the Henry injury. The Bengals offense was also NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in red zone scoring up to that point, and NUMBER ONE IN THE NFL in scoring with two minutes to go in halfs up to that point. To be able to do all that, you must have a pretty decent QB. So up until that point there was not much bad you could say about Palmer. Yeah we still weren't scoring a ton, but that was by design since they wanted to run control the clock. The offense basically was doing what it was suppose to. However once they lost what honestly probably was their most talented Receiver in Henry, that is when we seen Palmer and the offense just go down hill. I mean you really can't deny that. So when Palmer had Henry he was much better. Without him, and only have Chad yeah he didn't do so great. Not to hard to see, when he has a couple of talented guys, Palmer still can do good.

 

So yeah when people say he is nothing more than a backup, and they need a new QB. I think they are crazy. Its really not that hard to see, if you have talent for him to throw to that he still does good. I mean this season is the perfect example of that. When he had Henry, the offense and Palmer did much better. Then when they lost him, the offense and Palmer didnt do well at all. That basically shows that with some talent Palmer on this offense can get it done and no reason to be saying they need a new QB.

 

You're funny. Honestly.

 

Chris Henry caught 12 passes this year. 12 passes. You seem to think he was somehow akin to Andre Johnson or Randy Moss. The Bengals' offense wasn't particularly explosive with him or without him. The offense, save a couple of games - and EVERY team has a good offensive game now and then, even teams like Washington, Cleveland, Seattle, etc... - was underwhelming all season long. With or without Henry.

At 6'5, Henry was the only one capable of catching Palmer's misfires.

 

:lol: Palmer definitely throws high on some passes, so having a tall guy like him did help you are right about that. You could look around the league though, and you see the top QB's having their receivers having to make all kinds of tough catches for them. You never see the Bengal receivers making tough catches. I admit Palmer has missed some passes, but he definitely doesn't get much help from his receivers either.

It really just comes down to this. Is Palmer as good as Manning, Brady, Favre, no is he not. Is he a guy they can win with and do something in the playoffs with, definitely! Put some talent around him, and they would be just fine. The man didn't have much talent around him this year, and they still made the playoffs. So its just crazy to say that the Bengals need a new QB, when their QB just made the playoffs when not having much to work with. This team would be a lot worst off without Palmer.

 

The Bengals made the playoffs in spite of Palmer, not because of him. The Bengals made the playoffs because of their defense and rushing attack. If they had had a meaningful passing attack, they would have had a better overall record and would probably be playing this weekend.

You're funny. Honestly.

 

Chris Henry caught 12 passes this year. 12 passes. You seem to think he was somehow akin to Andre Johnson or Randy Moss. The Bengals' offense wasn't particularly explosive with him or without him. The offense, save a couple of games - and EVERY team has a good offensive game now and the, even teams like Washington, Cleveland, Seattle, etc... - was underwhelming all season long. With or without Henry.

 

Bengals with Henry. #1 in red zone scoring, and scoring with 2 minutes left in halfs. Your funny if you don't think he didn't have a big influence with that. How well did the Bengals do in redzone scoring after the Henry injury? How well did their two minute offenses work? But yeah your right Henry really didn't matter much. :lol:

 

Yeah Henry only had 12 catches, but unless you don't know much about football. Then you would also know him just being in the game opened up a lot of things. What is one thing teams probably would worry about when he was in? Thats right the deep pass, so what do you think teams did when he was in? Thats right cheat a safety to his side. Most teams also still doubled Chad this year. So what part of the field does that open up? Thats right the middle of the field. When did it seem like Caldwell was doing pretty well this year? Thats right when Henry was still playing, and that middle of the field being more open for him. Now its funny that you don't see that....

The Bengals made the playoffs in spite of Palmer, not because of him. The Bengals made the playoffs because of their defense and rushing attack. If they had had a meaningful passing attack, they would have had a better overall record and would probably be playing this weekend.

 

So your basically saying put another QB on this team, and the Bengals are better off? Now that is just funny...:lol:

 

The Bengals had basically the same team last season during the 4-11-1 season, and actually had more talent on the offense. How well did that team do, without Palmer? Thats right 4-11-1. What is the one thing the Bengals added this year back to the offense, thats right Palmer. This team is much better off with Palmer, than they would be without him. And to think that it would be so easy to find someone to be better than him to replace him is just laughable.

Bengals with Henry. #1 in red zone scoring, and scoring with 2 minutes left in halfs. Your funny if you don't think he didn't have a big influence with that. How well did the Bengals do in redzone scoring after the Henry injury? How well did their two minute offenses work? But yeah your right Henry really didn't matter much. :lol:

 

Yeah Henry only had 12 catches, but unless you don't know much about football. Then you would also know him just being in the game opened up a lot of things. What is one thing teams probably would worry about when he was in? Thats right the deep pass, so what do you think teams did when he was in? Thats right cheat a safety to his side. Most teams also still doubled Chad this year. So what part of the field does that open up? Thats right the middle of the field. When did it seem like Caldwell was doing pretty well this year? Thats right when Henry was still playing, and that middle of the field being more open for him. Now its funny that you don't see that....

 

Trust me, I'm sure I don't know as much as you profess to know about football. :notworthy: We are all just minions and pawns in the world of futurecoach football knowledge.

Well this has turned in to the great Carson Palmer debate. As of now QB ( at least a starter) is not a need for the Bengals. As long as he is healthy he is the starting QB in Cincy. WR has to be priority. S and LB will be on the list. I have kind of given up on TE. So more depth on both lines would be a bonus.

Well this has turned in to the great Carson Palmer debate. As of now QB ( at least a starter) is not a need for the Bengals. As long as he is healthy he is the starting QB in Cincy. WR has to be priority. S and LB will be on the list. I have kind of given up on TE. So more depth on both lines would be a bonus.

 

I agree with this although I think we are deeper at LB than most people think.

 

WR, Safety, TE and deeper on both lines.

So far with him under center we have made two playoff appearances. We have no clue how that first one would have played out with him. How many playoff appearances had we had in all the years before him since 1991?

 

This team can win with him. Is he a guy who can do great with any WR like a Manning or a Favre, NO. However is he a guy who they can with and do something in the playoffs, if they just actually give him some talent on offense, yes definitely!

 

Who knows how it would have gone in 05. We're going into the 2010 season. Big difference.

Well this has turned in to the great Carson Palmer debate. As of now QB ( at least a starter) is not a need for the Bengals. As long as he is healthy he is the starting QB in Cincy. WR has to be priority. S and LB will be on the list. I have kind of given up on TE. So more depth on both lines would be a bonus.

 

People seem to think, that I am saying Carson does no wrong. But I am not, he definitely has to play better than he has. However I just really don't think people are knowing what they are talking about, if they say he is the problem and they need a different QB. This team at the moment would be worst off without him. He is not an elite QB like a Manning, or Brady like we thought he could have been a few years ago. However he is still a good enough QB, that they could win with if you put some more talent around him. That is the main point I am trying to get across. It frustrates me when people see to think, that this team would easily be able to find a QB that the Bengals would do better with. You would think after what this team went through before Palmer, that they would realize just how hard it is to find a QB to win with. I really think Palmer just spoiled the fans with how good he was in 2005 and 2006, and made them forget what a bad QB looks like and that is not Palmer. Palmer is a guy they definitely still can win with.

 

Now to get off that topic, you are right on with the things that they need to address this off season. :thumb: