The State of Kentucky absolutely builds roads, they may hire firms to do it, but the state pays the bill.

 

Even if fire fighters and police are locally funded, they are still government run.

 

No comment on the higher ed. huh?

 

Government does that rather well doesn't it.

 

The governor came out last week and said that they do a poor job preparing teachers.

 

The state funded universities have been complaining for years that they do not have enough funds to adequately educate people.

 

And thanks to the nod to my alma mater, Berea College. It is a non-denominational Christian university.

 

Who would have thunk it that Christian's and Jesus Church could do something efficiently and effectively like the government tries to. I knew you would have not have thought that. You have been very frank about that point.

The governor came out last week and said that they do a poor job preparing teachers.

 

The state funded universities have been complaining for years that they do not have enough funds to adequately educate people.

 

And thanks to the nod to my alma mater, Berea College. It is a non-denominational Christian university.

 

Who would have thunk it that Christian's and Jesus Church could do something efficiently and effectively like the government tries to. I knew you would have not have thought that. You have been very frank about that point.

 

I will respond to both of your posts here

 

First of all read up a little on Maslow. Until people or healthy they can't begin to approach the thought of salvation. So i am very concerned about their persona well being on earth and Jesus command to us to Love everyone and treat the least of these with the greatest respect. Jesus even said himself that he came for the poor and to liberate the oppressed.

 

I have never said the church can't do anything, but it just doesn't. It gets too busy trying to ban gay marriage and fighting against global warming science that it forgets to take care of the "least of these." Your church may be doing things but the CHURCH certainly is not. If it were people would not be living in poverty, we would respect different opinions and voices more, we would all be adopting children or being foster parents, we would all live significantly below our means, we would reduce our carbon footprint, we would buy on fair/free traded goods . . . but we don't. Our focus is wrong, and finally we have a Christian in the White House who has put away icons and is focusing on actions and treating everyone fairly and as God would treat them - WITH LOVE

If... as I am told... it is none of my business what a woman chooses to do with the "tissue" growing within her womb or how it got there... why should it be my responsibility to shut up and write a check to mitigate the consequences of her actions?

 

Amen!!!! :thumb:

I will respond to both of your posts here

 

First of all read up a little on Maslow. Until people or healthy they can't begin to approach the thought of salvation. So i am very concerned about their persona well being on earth and Jesus command to us to Love everyone and treat the least of these with the greatest respect. Jesus even said himself that he came for the poor and to liberate the oppressed.

 

I have never said the church can't do anything, but it just doesn't. It gets too busy trying to ban gay marriage and fighting against global warming science that it forgets to take care of the "least of these." Your church may be doing things but the CHURCH certainly is not. If it were people would not be living in poverty, we would respect different opinions and voices more, we would all be adopting children or being foster parents, we would all live significantly below our means, we would reduce our carbon footprint, we would buy on fair/free traded goods . . . but we don't. Our focus is wrong, and finally we have a Christian in the White House who has put away icons and is focusing on actions and treating everyone fairly and as God would treat them - WITH LOVE

 

We would quit shopping at wal-mart.....

I will respond to both of your posts here

 

First of all read up a little on Maslow. Until people or healthy they can't begin to approach the thought of salvation. So i am very concerned about their persona well being on earth and Jesus command to us to Love everyone and treat the least of these with the greatest respect. Jesus even said himself that he came for the poor and to liberate the oppressed.

 

I have never said the church can't do anything, but it just doesn't. It gets too busy trying to ban gay marriage and fighting against global warming science that it forgets to take care of the "least of these." Your church may be doing things but the CHURCH certainly is not. If it were people would not be living in poverty, we would respect different opinions and voices more, we would all be adopting children or being foster parents, we would all live significantly below our means, we would reduce our carbon footprint, we would buy on fair/free traded goods . . . but we don't. Our focus is wrong, and finally we have a Christian in the White House who has put away icons and is focusing on actions and treating everyone fairly and as God would treat them - WITH LOVE

 

Ironically, funny we discussed Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs today in class. And I understand that and agree with that and feel like the churches need to do more in their communities and quit relying on the government to do what Jesus has called us to do. You will get no argument from me.

 

As far as the poor, absolutely we have to do things to help out the least.

 

But a couple of things here.

 

Poverty in this country, I would hazard a guess live like kings compared to poverty in Jesus time and in other parts of the world.

 

A very, very, very small percentage of the people in this country, even if they are living in poverty, have it like people in other part's of the world. Don't get caught up in this country's definition of poverty and think it is bad.

 

My sister lived in poverty for 10-15 years. And yet at the end of that time WHILE TECHNICALLY LIVING IN POVERTY according to the government rankings, she bought, paid off and sold her own house for six figures, NEVER ONCE took food stamps, free lunch for her kids or a check from the government.

 

She cut hair, she cut the hair of the deceased in funeral homes, she cleaned houses, she canned food to make ends meet, she took the leftovers from neighbors and their gardens, she made her own spaghetti sauce, salsa, etc, etc, to lessen her costs.

 

The government told her she was living in poverty and she had it horrible but like I said at the end of her living in poverty, she sold her PAID OFF HOUSE for 6 figures.

 

I disagree with you on a Christian living in the White House and him treating everyone fairly.

Ironically, funny we discussed Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs today in class. And I understand that and agree with that and feel like the churches need to do more in their communities and quit relying on the government to do what Jesus has called us to do. You will get no argument from me.

 

As far as the poor, absolutely we have to do things to help out the least.

 

But a couple of things here.

 

Poverty in this country, I would hazard a guess live like kings compared to poverty in Jesus time and in other parts of the world.

 

A very, very, very small percentage of the people in this country, even if they are living in poverty, have it like people in other part's of the world. Don't get caught up in this country's definition of poverty and think it is bad.

 

My sister lived in poverty for 10-15 years. And yet at the end of that time WHILE TECHNICALLY LIVING IN POVERTY according to the government rankings, she bought, paid off and sold her own house for six figures, NEVER ONCE took food stamps, free lunch for her kids or a check from the government.

 

She cut hair, she cut the hair of the deceased in funeral homes, she cleaned houses, she canned food to make ends meet, she took the leftovers from neighbors and their gardens, she made her own spaghetti sauce, salsa, etc, etc, to lessen her costs.

 

The government told her she was living in poverty and she had it horrible but like I said at the end of her living in poverty, she sold her PAID OFF HOUSE for 6 figures.

 

I disagree with you on a Christian living in the White House and him treating everyone fairly.

 

Actually, he's the best of both worlds, he claims to be a Christian, yet he also claims that all religions are correct. Hmmmmm.

I will respond to both of your posts here

 

First of all read up a little on Maslow. Until people or healthy they can't begin to approach the thought of salvation. So i am very concerned about their persona well being on earth and Jesus command to us to Love everyone and treat the least of these with the greatest respect. Jesus even said himself that he came for the poor and to liberate the oppressed.

 

I have never said the church can't do anything, but it just doesn't. It gets too busy trying to ban gay marriage and fighting against global warming science that it forgets to take care of the "least of these." Your church may be doing things but the CHURCH certainly is not. If it were people would not be living in poverty, we would respect different opinions and voices more, we would all be adopting children or being foster parents, we would all live significantly below our means, we would reduce our carbon footprint, we would buy on fair/free traded goods . . . but we don't. Our focus is wrong, and finally we have a Christian in the White House who has put away icons and is focusing on actions and treating everyone fairly and as God would treat them - WITH LOVE

 

With LOVE does not mean that you continue to let people wallow in their sin without being convicted of it and asking for forgiveness to it.

 

Jesus NEVER that I can recall, overlooked a person's sin and called them on it.

 

Even the legendary woman who they wanted to stone, he told her to go and sin no more.

 

If I continue to let my son make horrible choices and dive deeper into a sinful life, do I truly love him? All because I am afraid to stand up and tell him that what he is doing is wrong?

 

I think you love people when you ARE willing to stand up and point out to them that the life they are living is not the life that Jesus wants them to live.

 

The LOVE that Jesus talks about is a love that their eternal salvation is foremost in our minds. Not their wordly positions.

 

Jesus, himself said that we will ALWAYS have the poor.

With LOVE does not mean that you continue to let people wallow in their sin without being convicted of it and asking for forgiveness to it.

 

Jesus NEVER that I can recall, overlooked a person's sin and called them on it.

 

Even the legendary woman who they wanted to stone, he told her to go and sin no more.

 

If I continue to let my son make horrible choices and dive deeper into a sinful life, do I truly love him? All because I am afraid to stand up and tell him that what he is doing is wrong?

 

I think you love people when you ARE willing to stand up and point out to them that the life they are living is not the life that Jesus wants them to live.

 

The LOVE that Jesus talks about is a love that their eternal salvation is foremost in our minds. Not their wordly positions.

 

Jesus, himself said that we will ALWAYS have the poor.

 

Jesus also said that God's kingdom had come to earth, not fully, but it was here. He also did not have the woman ask fogiveness of her sins before he intervened on behalf of her health (as you would have people before you give them health care in the churches). He ate with tax collectors and even said the samaritans were your friend. There were no pre-conditions to Jesus acting on behalf of anyone and or everyone. He preached much less on "converting sinners" than he did on railing against the economic oppression of his day and the divide between the have and the have nots going so far as to say, before the rich young man could get to heaven that he had to sell all he had and give it to the poor.

Jesus also said that God's kingdom had come to earth, not fully, but it was here. He also did not have the woman ask fogiveness of her sins before he intervened on behalf of her health (as you would have people before you give them health care in the churches). He ate with tax collectors and even said the samaritans were your friend. There were no pre-conditions to Jesus acting on behalf of anyone and or everyone. He preached much less on "converting sinners" than he did on railing against the economic oppression of his day and the divide between the have and the have nots going so far as to say, before the rich young man could get to heaven that he had to sell all he had and give it to the poor.

Your predilection for ascribing the infinite characteristics of God upon a finite human government, rife with waste, dishonesty, selfish ambition, struggles for power and control… moderated by what should truly be limited financial resources collected and spent far more wisely than currently fashionable is genuinely mind boggling.

 

The more I read your posts, the more I am convinced that perhaps you do need a big brother in government watching over you... but please, do not assume that is even remotely true for the rest of us.

 

Government will never be my lord, my provider, my healer, my savior.

Your predilection for ascribing the infinite characteristics of God upon a finite human government, rife with waste, dishonesty, selfish ambition, struggles for power and control… moderated by what should truly be limited financial resources collected and spent far more wisely than currently fashionable is genuinely mind boggling.

 

The more I read your posts, the more I am convinced that perhaps you do need a big brother in government watching over you... but please, do not assume that is even remotely true for the rest of us.

 

Government will never be my lord, my provider, my healer, my savior.

 

The fact the you view God as someone who reaches down randomly and heals people and gives them health insurarance and lifts them out of poverty is a point of disagreement for both of us, and I am okay with that.

 

I ascribe none of those things to the government, and I am very wary of it. The problem is that many conservatives view this reform as a takeover, and it is anything but - but Hannity and Beck and Limbaugh keep beating that drum so everyone thinks it is a takeover. A single payer system is not even a takeover. The government will not own the hospitals and it will not hire physicians.

 

I am wary of the government, just as you are, the last 8 years has made me very cynical, however, I am willing to allow the government to work on assuring our citizens that they can get health insurance.

 

It is a simple fact that sometimes an individual citizen cannot right a social injustice on their own and at times the government must step in, i.e. the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Brown v the Board in 54, the Emancipation proclamation, all righting social injustices. 30 million people without insurance or 1 million peope without in this country is just WRONG. People losing their houses because of their MEDICAL bills is just wrong. As an individual Christian person I cannot fix those, however, I can work through my government to see that these injustices are corrected.

 

I am often reminded of the lyrics of one of my favorite contemporary Christian songs . . . "I'll be your hands . . . I'll be your feet"

We have long since reached and exceeded the limitations of reasonably collected tax dollars. We now have a deficit of multiple trillions of dollars. Every American child born today inherits a debt that could otherwise pay in full the price of a very nice house on a big lot.

 

WASTEFUL spending for no other reason than to consolidate further power at the expense of the governed foolish enough to keep voting for these charlatans should be criminal. We are headed directly for circumstances similar to those that spawned the French Revolution.

 

"Allons, enfant de la patria, la jour de gloire est arrive…" ...not.

I am sure that our army is more EFFICIENT than any private one you can muster up.

 

You should read up on some of the private defense contractors like Blackwater. It might surprise you.

Thought this would be closer to the intent of the title of the thread. Got this in an email just today.

 

Our pastors are standing up for freedom ! Please contact your pastor and plan to attend this important meeting tomorrow. 5th District pastors to hold press conference urging Congressman Perriello and Senators Webb and Warner to oppose the health care bill

Martinsville, Va. ( TOMORROW, Oct. 28, 2009) – Local pastors representing churches in the 5th Congressional District will speak out against the proposed national health care plan at 11:30 a.m. at the Old County Courthouse in Martinsville on Wednesday (Oct. 28). All pastors are welcome to attend and be heard. See below for more information.

 

 

5th District pastors to hold press conference urging Congressman Perriello and Senators Webb and Warner to oppose the health care bill

 

Martinsville, Va. (Oct. 27, 2009) – Local pastors representing churches in the 5th Congressional district will speak out against the proposed national health care plan at 11:30 a.m. at the Old County Courthouse in Martinsville on Wednesday (Oct. 28).

 

“Our pastors are speaking against the proposed health care plan because it violates many principles on which this country is based, but is also offensive to our Christian beliefs,” said Aaron Evans, director of Spreading the Gospel Light Ministries. “It appears that this proposed legislation would be a disaster for our people, morally, spiritually and financially.”

Evans said the pastors recognize a need for health care reforms, but the proposed plan is too flawed and should be scrapped. “We cannot stand silent in light of the outrageous violations of the dignity of the human person that are contained in this plan,” Evans added. “We are especially concerned about the inclusion of coverage for abortion and euthanasia in the plan, as well as the dismantling of many of the best parts of our current system, and the horrendous financial cost to future generations.”

 

Another group of pastors from the 9th District will hold a press conference at 3:30 p.m. in Wytheville, VA in front of the Courthouse and pastors from the 2nd Congressional District will hold a press conference at the conference room in the Central Library in Virginia Beach on Thursday at 2:00 PM.

 

 

It's not all ONE SIDED evidently.

 

:thumb:

You should read up on some of the private defense contractors like Blackwater. It might surprise you.

 

Exactly where do you think most of these Blackwater employees got their initial training?

Jesus also said that God's kingdom had come to earth, not fully, but it was here. He also did not have the woman ask fogiveness of her sins before he intervened on behalf of her health (as you would have people before you give them health care in the churches). He ate with tax collectors and even said the samaritans were your friend. There were no pre-conditions to Jesus acting on behalf of anyone and or everyone. He preached much less on "converting sinners" than he did on railing against the economic oppression of his day and the divide between the have and the have nots going so far as to say, before the rich young man could get to heaven that he had to sell all he had and give it to the poor.

 

Be careful on the bolded.

What happened with Jesus and doing miracles in Nazarene?

 

You think he was more concerned with economic oppression than converting sinners????

 

Did he die on the cross because of economic oppression of the day????

 

 

Matthew 13:57-58 (New International Version)

57And they took offense at him.

But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."

 

58And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

 

Is there any preconditions on Jesus doing miracles for them?