I'll ask again: For what reason does a person need a firearm to protest health reform. I assume it is to represent violent opposition to the government. Is it a metaphor? If not when are they going to start opening up?

There is no reason a person needs a firearm to protest health reform. However, it is within their rights, and it should be. It sucks, but, in the same way that you've argued that maybe compulsory healthcare is a pill we have to swallow, you have to take the bad with the good.

No, I did a poor job of explaining it. What I meant is that, in a libertarian society, crimes would be action which infringed on other's rights. Therefore, since owning a gun is not an infringement of rights, but abortion is an infringement of rights, it is not a hypocritical or illogical position to hold.

 

The litmus test for laws is NOT merely if the law is effective at stopping crime. Just because laws against abortion wouldn't stop all abortions does not make those laws invalid.

 

Gotcha. I, too, am doing a poor job of explaining my point. Maybe I'll try again later when my brain feels more rested.

There is no reason a person needs a firearm to protest health reform. However, it is within their rights, and it should be. It sucks, but, in the same way that you've argued that maybe compulsory healthcare is a pill we have to swallow, you have to take the bad with the good.

 

I'm not arguing against it. I own guns. I just want to know the reason to bring a gun to a protest against the government if you aren't going to use it. That's what I understand their point to be.

There is a pretty big difference in walking down your own street where everyone knows you with a .22 rifle...and walking around public with an "assault" weapon (or at least one that looks like an assault weapon).

Not very many people knew me when I first was doing it. We hadn't lived there but a month or two.

I had two guys try to break in on my wife when I was in the Air Force. My brother in law drove me home and I pulled his shotgun from behind the seat and walked around the apartment complex with it on my shoulder. Heard comments did you see that crazy guy walking around with a gun on his shoulder. People that shouldn't have been hanging around scoping things out suddenly dissapeared and we had no more problems. I would say I scared and intimated people which is exactly what I was after. This was in the 70's. I understand this guys right to protest, but the gun is a little overboard. Heck we're on here debating exactly what he was protesting. Carry a sign.

RTS already said he walked around his neighborhood with a 22 on his shoulder. I got off the bus the other day, in my decidedly peace-love-and-happiness neighborhood, and as I got off, I accidentally stepped into the path of a guy which caused a minor collision. When I looked up, he had halfway drawn a side arm from it's holster. Yep. I feel much safer knowing that any Tom Dick or Harry can get a license and carry a gun anywhere they please. Yep....much safer.

Wow. Mom I must say that typically when you take a stance on an issue you back up that stance with fact and substance, however, as with most on the anti gun side of the fence, the argument morphs into emotion and dramatic fluff. So, we go from people demonstrating the right to bear arms to this. Is there any statistics, or facts or anything of substance that we can point to that gun control has been successful? Again, let's see how that gun control has helped those across the pond in Australia. Do some research on the #'s there since the gov't made it's gun control pitch. I suppose I'm finished with this one.

Wow. Mom I must say that typically when you take a stance on an issue you back up that stance with fact and substance, however, as with most on the anti gun side of the fence, the argument morphs into emotion and dramatic fluff. So, we go from people demonstrating the right to bear arms to this. Is there any statistics, or facts or anything of substance that we can point to that gun control has been successful? Again, let's see how that gun control has helped those across the pond in Australia. Do some research on the #'s there since the gov't made it's gun control pitch. I suppose I'm finished with this one.

 

I've done my homework, and my feelings are the same. I've seen everything you guys have posted, and read all the studies you've suggested, and I still feel the same. Despite your leap to the conclusion that I am anti-gun, I am not. Even RTS knows this. But for the love of Pete, there should be some sort of common sense used. There's no plausible explaniation for that type of gun to be slung over the shoulder of a guy not even there to protest the issue discussed. There's no plausible explanation for walking down the street with such a gun. You want a handgun, go for it. I could POSSIBLY see the need. But in the case of the guy I ran into getting off the bus that day...SERIOUSLY? You were first concerned about someone who didn't even see you to the point you were ready to pull your weapon? What made him stop from pulling the gun all the way out? All I was doing was exiting out onto a sidewalk at a posted bus stop, and he wasn't paying attention to where he was going. What if he'd have gone ahead and shot me. I don't know the guy. You saying I shouldn't feel threatened by such an action? I can only assume this stranger had the proper permits. I don't know. Somehow, it's his right to carry the gun, and apparently his right to pull it on me even in an accidental collision. But, I'm "emotional" or "naive" or not "backing my argument up with facts" because I think that it's quite possible legal gun packers can do stupid things with their legal weapons. There are few consequences, IMO. Kids get shot with guns and ammo improperly stored...it's a tragedy. Accidents happen. Maybe it's a statistical minority. I just know it's too many.

I've done my homework, and my feelings are the same. I've seen everything you guys have posted, and read all the studies you've suggested, and I still feel the same. Despite your leap to the conclusion that I am anti-gun, I am not. Even RTS knows this. But for the love of Pete, there should be some sort of common sense used. There's no plausible explaniation for that type of gun to be slung over the shoulder of a guy not even there to protest the issue discussed. There's no plausible explanation for walking down the street with such a gun. You want a handgun, go for it. I could POSSIBLY see the need. But in the case of the guy I ran into getting off the bus that day...SERIOUSLY? You were first concerned about someone who didn't even see you to the point you were ready to pull your weapon? What made him stop from pulling the gun all the way out? All I was doing was exiting out onto a sidewalk at a posted bus stop, and he wasn't paying attention to where he was going. What if he'd have gone ahead and shot me. I don't know the guy. You saying I shouldn't feel threatened by such an action? I can only assume this stranger had the proper permits. I don't know. Somehow, it's his right to carry the gun, and apparently his right to pull it on me even in an accidental collision. But, I'm "emotional" or "naive" or not "backing my argument up with facts" because I think that it's quite possible legal gun packers can do stupid things with their legal weapons. There are few consequences, IMO. Kids get shot with guns and ammo improperly stored...it's a tragedy. Accidents happen. Maybe it's a statistical minority. I just know it's too many.

Did he put the muzzle of the gun in your face? No. Put yourself in his shoes. What if that person coming off the bus is getting ready to rob him or harm him in any way? Hypothetical, but no different than your hypothetical situation. Was the demonstration overboard? Perhaps, but it got the point across that folks want their right reserved to bear arms. No one can make me believe that any control instituted by this or any other administration would not open the door to more stringent control of guns across the board. And again I say, that has not worked,,,,ever.

Did he put the muzzle of the gun in your face? No. Put yourself in his shoes. What if that person coming off the bus is getting ready to rob him or harm him in any way? Hypothetical, but no different than your hypothetical situation. Was the demonstration overboard? Perhaps, but it got the point across that folks want their right reserved to bear arms. No one can make me believe that any control instituted by this or any other administration would not open the door to more stringent control of guns across the board. And again I say, that has not worked,,,,ever.

 

 

So, the onus is on the person who DOESN'T have a gun to make sure the person who DOES have a gun is well aware that they are 1) exiting a bus 2) unarmed 3) in no way attempting the gun holder any harm 4) going to simply scamper quickly in appropriate respect away from said gun holder.

 

By the way, the bus stop situation is NOT a hypothetical. It happend. Right in front of Kizito Cookies. It happened to ME. No...I don't make a habit of exiting the bus calling loudly.."I'm just exiting...no harm intended. I am unarmed!" My bad. I'll make sure I do in the future, for if I don't I have only myself to blame for having a gun drawn on me, or possibly being shot.

So, the onus is on the person who DOESN'T have a gun to make sure the person who DOES have a gun is well aware that they are 1) exiting a bus 2) unarmed 3) in no way attempting the gun holder any harm 4) going to simply scamper quickly in appropriate respect away from said gun holder.

 

By the way, the bus stop situation is NOT a hypothetical. It happend. Right in front of Kizito Cookies. It happened to ME. No...I don't make a habit of exiting the bus calling loudly.."I'm just exiting...no harm intended. I am unarmed!" My bad. I'll make sure I do in the future, for if I don't I have only myself to blame for having a gun drawn on me, or possibly being shot.

I'm quite sure it happened if you said so. But what with the delusions of grandeur that he's gonna off you in front of the cookie store? What is that? So, if you're not anti gun, what are you? Anti-handgun? Anti-semiauto? What? Only the police have weapons? Please, I'd love to know where you stand.

When he put his hand on the weapon, were you in danger? Really? Perhaps you startled him and he was being cautious. Or perhaps he was an off duty policeman or detective. Those are my hypotheticals.

RTS already said he walked around his neighborhood with a 22 on his shoulder. I got off the bus the other day, in my decidedly peace-love-and-happiness neighborhood, and as I got off, I accidentally stepped into the path of a guy which caused a minor collision. When I looked up, he had halfway drawn a side arm from it's holster. Yep. I feel much safer knowing that any Tom Dick or Harry can get a license and carry a gun anywhere they please. Yep....much safer.

What are you saying here (the bolded)?

 

As to the gentleman you bumped into. O don't see where the problem was, he had no idea who you were or what you were doing. He sounds like he acted properly so I'm not sure what the issue with him is.

Man you pro gun guys amaze me. I'm not anti gun either, but you guys standing up for this guy rockmom bumped into amazes me. What if she accidently knocked him down, I suppose he has the right to blow her away.

Man you pro gun guys amaze me. I'm not anti gun either, but you guys standing up for this guy rockmom bumped into amazes me. What if she accidently knocked him down, I suppose he has the right to blow her away.

 

 

That's my point. Does no one realize that I didn't see him as well, so I just as easily could have felt threatened by someone who was suddenly in my path? What if I'd have hauled off and hit him with my umbrella upside his noggin. I'd be accused of assaulting an innocent sidewalk walker. But because this guy has a gun, his rights to that space supercede mine, because I somehow threatened him. To me, if I'm a pedestrian (and I am a lot), I pay attention to what's going on around me. If I'm walking past a bus stop and there's a behemoth bus stopped, I naturally assume that someone will be getting off the bus. Since the usual course is to exit via the rear door which offers little in the way of unobstructed visibility, I would assume that the person getting off may not see me walking up. It's not just for them, it's for my own personal safety. These posters are defending him because he had no idea who I was, or my intent. Yet somehow, I should have known his intent, and that he was harmless.

 

If you have a gun, you must be an upstanding citizen. If you have a gun, your safety trumps those without. If you don't have a gun, it's your responsibility to make sure you don't give even the slightest possible, even unintended, reason for that person to use their gun.

 

I get it....the illusions of gradeur aren't on my part. I guess the fact that the guy actually DID have his gun halfway withrdrawn mean that I imagined a threat because I think so highly of myself.

I'm quite sure it happened if you said so. But what with the delusions of grandeur that he's gonna off you in front of the cookie store? What is that? So, if you're not anti gun, what are you? Anti-handgun? Anti-semiauto? What? Only the police have weapons? Please, I'd love to know where you stand.

When he put his hand on the weapon, were you in danger? Really? Perhaps you startled him and he was being cautious. Or perhaps he was an off duty policeman or detective. Those are my hypotheticals.

 

I've made my position very clear over the last year or so.

So, the onus is on the person who DOESN'T have a gun to make sure the person who DOES have a gun is well aware that they are 1) exiting a bus 2) unarmed 3) in no way attempting the gun holder any harm 4) going to simply scamper quickly in appropriate respect away from said gun holder.

 

By the way, the bus stop situation is NOT a hypothetical. It happend. Right in front of Kizito Cookies. It happened to ME. No...I don't make a habit of exiting the bus calling loudly.."I'm just exiting...no harm intended. I am unarmed!" My bad. I'll make sure I do in the future, for if I don't I have only myself to blame for having a gun drawn on me, or possibly being shot.

I feel I need to step in here and clarify something that Rockmom didn't emphasize enough; she is way off base in regards to the gun owners intentions. The guy WASN'T pulling his weapon on Rockmom. He was simply defending his cookies! Trust me, if you've had one, you would know why! :sssh:

 

Also, I was under the impression that all guns, knives, and anything that could conceivably be called a weapon were banned in Louisville from Eastern Parkway to Broadway! ::confused: