CHRIS MATTHEWS: Put 100 of these people in a room. Strap them into gurneys. Inject them with sodium pentathol. How many of them would say "I don't like the idea of having a black president"? What percentage?

 

CYNTHIA TUCKER: Oh, I'm just guessing. This is just off the cuff. I think 45 to 65% of the people who appear at these groups are people who will never be comfortable with the idea of a black president.

 

45 to 65%???? :ohbrother:

 

 

 

 

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It seems like if you don't agree with Obama on anything...then you are a racist.

I'd agree that racism lubricates the movement and heightens the level of fear mongering these groups use.

 

When I see the message to "Fear Obama" I see clear racial overtones.

I'd agree that racism lubricates the movement and heightens the level of fear mongering these groups use.

 

When I see the message to "Fear Obama" I see clear racial overtones.

Why is it race to you? Why not just fear of the policies he's pushing?

 

Honestly, I see people like Cynthia Tucker and Chris Matthews as the ones with the race problem. If one constantly thinks it must be race that cause people to disagree or dislike Obama's policies, they're the ones not ready for a black president IMO. Not saying you are that way, RowdyRedRam, but I do question many who think this way.

I'd agree that racism lubricates the movement and heightens the level of fear mongering these groups use.

 

When I see the message to "Fear Obama" I see clear racial overtones.

I am not saying I agree with how the protests are ensuing, but what in your opinion shows a non-racist tone? What are these people allowed to say?

I'd agree that racism lubricates the movement and heightens the level of fear mongering these groups use.

 

When I see the message to "Fear Obama" I see clear racial overtones.

 

RRR- while I rarely agree with you, I normally enjoy your posts and debating with you. This, however, is an absurd claim.

 

It seems that most people live with the mentality that everyone is a racist. I assume that people aren't racist until I see otherwise, and I would never label entire groups of people (besides the obvious groups that exist and promote racism, such as the KKK) as more racist than others. I see no reason why those who oppose the proposed health care reform are inherently more racist then others.

It seems like if you don't agree with Obama on anything...then you are a racist.

 

Ahhhhhh, now I understand.

I'd agree that racism lubricates the movement and heightens the level of fear mongering these groups use.

 

When I see the message to "Fear Obama" I see clear racial overtones.

 

That is sad.

Why is it race to you? Why not just fear of the policies he's pushing?

 

Honestly, I see people like Cynthia Tucker and Chris Matthews as the ones with the race problem. If one constantly thinks it must be race that cause people to disagree or dislike Obama's policies, they're the ones not ready for a black president IMO. Not saying you are that way, RowdyRedRam, but I do question many who think this way.

I felt I used my words carefully in that I'm not assigning race as the cause for disagreement, but I think it plays strong in the sensitivities of many people and it effects the tone and direction of the discussion. I honestly feel that those who are racists pick up the fight quite readily, but I don't see this as the big fish problem, it is more how the underling racial fears (that I believe all people have, by a natural fear of the different) are boiled up and the direction and key opposition movement is to broil up fear.

 

It is not just the fact that fear is the game plan but fear of "Obama" is the target. This personalized fear I believe is amplified by the fact that Obama is a black man. Where he white I believe the attacks would be about incompetence and stupidity but because he is black these argument become "he is dangerous and out to hurt you".

 

I absolutely do not believe that the cause of opposition is primarily because he is a black man, but that he is a black man will play a significant part in the way his opposition frames him.

 

To your second point I actually agree that those most conscious of race serve in many ways to propagate its continuance. But I also feel that we as Americans have very poorly chosen our way to look at race (which we far to strictly view in terms of skin tone) as opposed to culture. Now could go on a huge soapbox thread but I will shortly summarize my belief that we unfortunalty tie our disagreements with culture into racial (or skin tone) terms and because of that we cannot have honest discussions about race in this country,

It seems like if you don't agree with Obama on anything...then you are a racist.

 

While I will agree that there are some who hold this sentiment

 

i think it is even more true that

 

If you are a racist you don't agree with Obama on anything.

 

And just for fun, look at the people protesting at the town halls and the ones that Fox brings on ... could they get any more southern republican??

 

Heck I saw some democrats against the healthcare plan today, and they were absolutely Kentucky democrats, meaning they were not really national democrats at all but local.

I am not saying I agree with how the protests are ensuing, but what in your opinion shows a non-racist tone? What are these people allowed to say?

 

When I read a question like cch5432's "Why should everyone be forced to have healthcare?" I see actual intelligent honest debate that has no fear inspired slant.

 

Perhaps the problem is the two of us are probably focusing to much on what our eyes are looking for. But I'm not seeing that policy discussion and disagreement are the drivers of the opposition movement. I see the "Obama wants to send you home with a pain pill to die", "Obama wants to pay for the illegal aliens", and "Obama wants to make your healthcare worse to pay for the nonworkers" and other bumper sticker type distorted truths as the plan of action. This is no different than the "No Blood for Oil" before the Iraq war in that it isn't intellegent argumentation, it is fearmongering.

While I will agree that there are some who hold this sentiment

 

i think it is even more true that

 

If you are a racist you don't agree with Obama on anything.

 

And just for fun, look at the people protesting at the town halls and the ones that Fox brings on ... could they get any more southern republican??

 

Heck I saw some democrats against the healthcare plan today, and they were absolutely Kentucky democrats, meaning they were not really national democrats at all but local.

Isn't this the same kind of attitude that others are talking about? Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, aren't you judging people on their looks?

When I read a question like cch5432's "Why should everyone be forced to have healthcare?" I see actual intelligent honest debate that has no fear inspired slant.

 

Perhaps the problem is the two of us are probably focusing to much on what our eyes are looking for. But I'm not seeing that policy discussion and disagreement are the drivers of the opposition movement. I see the "Obama wants to send you home with a pain pill to die", "Obama wants to pay for the illegal aliens", and "Obama wants to make your healthcare worse to pay for the nonworkers" and other bumper sticker type distorted truths as the plan of action. This is no different than the "No Blood for Oil" before the Iraq war in that it isn't intellegent argumentation, it is fearmongering.

 

Where are you seeing these quotes? On BGP?

 

Maybe the lib's need some encouragement from Hilary to see it's not racist or unpatriotic :sssh:

 

 

In 2003, Hillary Clinton screeched "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration."

I say hogwash! So if somebody that wasn't white didn't agree with Bush were they racist too? There is such a double standard in our society that it makes me want to puke. IMO neither President has hit it out of the ballpark so I guess I don't like any races...