June 9, 200917 yr Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of several possible ideas being considered? If I remember correctly, Obama also promised to consider many ideas/viewpoints when making decisions. Sure this is one possible idea. A really bad one. One he specifically campaigned against. He's considering it. Not to react would lead him to believe it's OK. We're reacting.
June 9, 200917 yr Welcome to America where the American Dream is starting to become the one where you sit on your rear all day watching T.V. living off the people that work hard for a living!
June 9, 200917 yr Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of several possible ideas being considered? If I remember correctly, Obama also promised to consider many ideas/viewpoints when making decisions. No matter which program he finally selects, it will wind up like all government run programs, ineffective and costing more than oringinally estimated.
June 9, 200917 yr Sure this is one possible idea. A really bad one. One he specifically campaigned against. He's considering it. Not to react would lead him to believe it's OK. We're reacting. I'll respond to you, since you were kind enough to respond without overt sarcasm. :thumb: Sometimes I wonder if there are ideas that are proposed to get people riled up enough to get involved. For instance, maybe people will bombard their Washington representatives with e-mails, phone calls & letters to oppose this. Then, that forces them to consider some other options. Politics, IS a game, you know.
June 9, 200917 yr Sure this is one possible idea. A really bad one. One he specifically campaigned against. He's considering it. Not to react would lead him to believe it's OK. We're reacting. Very good answer. Obama campaigned against this type of program.. He should not even be considering it. I will give him credit though. Bad news is like water off a ducks back with him. He has been masterful in manipulating the way his programs have been enacted so that if they go sour he can play the blame game with congress (they came up with the plan, I just signed what they wanted). That IMVHO is why he has been pretty much in the shadows of health care dismantling (I refuse to call it reform) until now. In much the same way that Obama has blamed pretty much everything evil in the world on The United States B.O. (Before Obama) he will throw congress under the bus at the first sign that this legislation is going sour.
June 9, 200917 yr I'll respond to you, since you were kind enough to respond without overt sarcasm. :thumb: Sometimes I wonder if there are ideas that are proposed to get people riled up enough to get involved. For instance, maybe people will bombard their Washington representatives with e-mails, phone calls & letters to oppose this. Then, that forces them to consider some other options. Politics, IS a game, you know. From what I recall reading, while it is just one idea being discussed, Obama is actually pushing this idea. Perhaps its just a negotiation ploy by Obama; we'll see when the final product gets delivered. But if his idea comes about, the question is: will the folks who voted for Obama give him a pass on his change in position or admit that he has quickly flipped on an alleged campaign pledge to push his social agenda? It will be very interesting to me to see how his supporters on here react if the idea of taxing the haves to pay for the have nots to provide health insurance comes to pass. I think most of the regular posters on here like to maintain credibility with the other posters (even those that we disagree with, well, at least most of them) and it will just be interesting to read the comments. And the issue should not be framed as to whether you agree that the haves should be taxed, as that's irrelevant to the issue. The issue should be whether you are upset/disappointed and to what degree with Obama's change of position on the concept of taxing the haves in less than 6 months. Would the level of ire and scorn directed to Bush for supposedly lying to the American public about the presence of WMDs in Iraq be appropriate for Obama lying about pledging not to tax the haves on health insurance, IF this comes to pass? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
June 9, 200917 yr Does anyone know the entire scope of the plan? Its not simply this one issue. Its hard to look at one portion of plan and make a decision as to it being the right plan or not.
June 9, 200917 yr What would it take in your mind to justify the complete change of position on taxing benefits? In my own mind there is no way he can justify doing this after being overwealmingly against it during thr campaign.
June 9, 200917 yr What would it take in your mind to justify the complete change of position on taxing benefits? In my own mind there is no way he can justify doing this after being overwealmingly against it during thr campaign. I seriously doubt if he's changing his position at all. He's just showing himself for what he is now that he has been elected.
June 9, 200917 yr I don't disagree, I really believe that Obama would have said anything and promised anything in order to get elected with no intention of ever following through on his pledges.
June 9, 200917 yr Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of several possible ideas being considered? If I remember correctly, Obama also promised to consider many ideas/viewpoints when making decisions. I'll respond to you, since you were kind enough to respond without overt sarcasm. :thumb: Sometimes I wonder if there are ideas that are proposed to get people riled up enough to get involved. For instance, maybe people will bombard their Washington representatives with e-mails, phone calls & letters to oppose this. Then, that forces them to consider some other options. Politics, IS a game, you know. RM, Something tells me that if former President Bush "proposed" nuclear-bombing the entire continent of Africa, you wouldn't have said that he could be doing it to "rile people up"- in fact, I think you would have been (correctly) critical. Publicly considering terrible ideas deserves our opposition, not encouraging the "different viewpoints".
June 9, 200917 yr Does anyone know the entire scope of the plan? Its not simply this one issue. Its hard to look at one portion of plan and make a decision as to it being the right plan or not. You are doing exactly what I thought some would do and that's trying to steer the discussion away from him now supporting something that he supposedly was dead set against when he campaigned. I realize that people should have the right to change their positions on issues, but when a politician runs on a platform specifically designed to make him more moderate than his prior political experience would indicate and he quickly adopts a position that is opposite to the moderate moderate position he advocated on the stump and more in line with his prior more liberal philosophies, folks should be upset. Should we ever hold politicians accountable for what they promise and claim on the campaign trail? As as mentioned in my prior post, my disappoinment with Obama will only occur if he actively pushes the taxing of the haves to pay for health insurance of the have nots (which again from what I recently read... I believe it was in the WSJ... he is doing).
June 9, 200917 yr You are doing exactly what I thought some would do and that's trying to steer the discussion away from him now supporting something that he supposedly was dead set against when he campaigned. I realize that people should have the right to change their positions on issues, but when a politician runs on a platform specifically designed to make him more moderate than his prior political experience would indicate and he quickly adopts a position that is opposite to the moderate moderate position he advocated on the stump and more in line with his prior more liberal philosophies, folks should be upset. Should we ever hold politicians accountable for what they promise and claim on the campaign trail? As as mentioned in my prior post, my disappoinment with Obama will only occur if he actively pushes the taxing of the haves to pay for health insurance of the have nots (which again from what I recently read... I believe it was in the WSJ... he is doing). I'm a net/net guy. My comment is aimed more at the people jumping off the ledge over something that we really know nothing about as well as the "gotcha" world we live in now. If the new plan works and ultimately is good for the country and me, I'm cool with it. If I get taxed on one end but overall save money, why should I be upset? Why should anyone be upset? RE: changing his mind/flip flopping/etc. A. We need to wait to see if he actually does change his mind. B. We need to look at the entire plan before we determine if its good for us or not. If its good for us AND he taxes us on the benefits are you going to complain? Does anyone expect any President to not change any of his campaign pledges? That would be naive.
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