Examples? Kobe's big shots in the playoffs? Multiple Game winners? Sure he plays well down the stretch of games but so does LBJ, DWade and others. If you are going to down LBJ, give examples of Kobe's big playoff moments.

 

- Walk off jumper against the Suns a couple seasons ago.

 

- The Lakers do not win their last NBA title without Kobe coming up clutch in consecutive elimination games against the Kings.

I don't see the Cavs losing until the conference finals against either Orlando or Boston.

 

I think they sweep the Hawks (Too banged up to beat the Cavs), and then win the conference finals in 5 or 6.

 

Also, for those who say the East is a weak conference, they actually owned the better record this year in East/West matchups. The East was 231-219 against the West.

- Walk off jumper against the Suns a couple seasons ago.

 

- The Lakers do not win their last NBA title without Kobe coming up clutch in consecutive elimination games against the Kings.

 

Thank you. First time that has been brought up. I was wondering when someone would say that.

 

Also, for those who say the East is a weak conference, they actually owned the better record this year in East/West matchups. The East was 231-219 against the West.

Good point and something that has been overlooked this season because of the West's dominance the past few seasons... :thumb:

I don't have a record book of clutch Kobe shots, but if you've watched he and the Lakers much during his career, you've undoubtedly seen his ability to hit big shots late in games.

 

It's more than just a shot in the last 30 seconds. It is big shot after big shot in the last 5-6 minutes of tight games when he counters every shot or run from an opponent with huge shots to keep the Lakers in the lead. That is clutch. Simply put, he doesn't wilt or disappear late in games, he gets better.

 

That has been a fair criticism of Lebron to some degree. However, I can only take so much of it considering how early in his career he is. The Cavs were abysmal when James arrived. They jumped from 17 wins to 35 in his first season, and then up to 42 in his second. They missed the playoffs in both of his first two seasons. Since then...

 

'05-06: 50-32, lost to Detroit in conference semi-finals (4-3)

'06-07: 50-32, lost to San Antonio in NBA Finals (4-0)

'07-08: 45-37, lost to Boston in conference semi-finals (4-3)

'09-09: 66-16, currently 6-0 in playoffs

 

Lebron is being unfairly criticized, at times, for carrying inferior teams further than they should be and then coming up short. They had no business taking Detroit to 7 in '05-06, or being in the finals the next year, or pushing Boston to the brink last year. Yet they did, because of LJ. On the flipside, he missed a 3-4 foot shot in Boston last year that could have stole home court from the C's and possibly lead to a Cavs series win...I think there is some validity to questioning him on plays like that. But, there's only so much to that when a guy goes into Boston and hangs 45 on the Celtics in a 97-92 game 7 loss.

 

JMO

Good point and something that has been overlooked this season because of the West's dominance the past few seasons... :thumb:

 

The east is stronger at the top than it has been in the past...but, KG's injury means Boston isn't the same team that won 62 games. The Magic are on the rise, but I don't think they're quite there yet...not ready for a title run. After that, the east is still a bunch of pushovers...Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Philly...they're just not that good.

 

Out west, all 8 playoff teams last season were at 50 wins or better...this year 6 of them were and the other two won 48 and 49.

 

The #8 team in the west would have had home court in the first round of the eastern playoffs. Phoenix would have been a 5 in the east and they've been watching since the playoffs started.

 

The east is as good (better IMO) than the west at the very top. If all teams are healthy, I'd take Cleveland, Boston and Orlando over the top three out west. But, there's a big gap in the two conferences after that.

I don't have a record book of clutch Kobe shots, but if you've watched he and the Lakers much during his career, you've undoubtedly seen his ability to hit big shots late in games.

 

It's more than just a shot in the last 30 seconds. It is big shot after big shot in the last 5-6 minutes of tight games when he counters every shot or run from an opponent with huge shots to keep the Lakers in the lead. That is clutch. Simply put, he doesn't wilt or disappear late in games, he gets better.

 

That has been a fair criticism of Lebron to some degree. However, I can only take so much of it considering how early in his career he is. The Cavs were abysmal when James arrived. They jumped from 17 wins to 35 in his first season, and then up to 42 in his second. They missed the playoffs in both of his first two seasons. Since then...

 

'05-06: 50-32, lost to Detroit in conference semi-finals (4-3)

'06-07: 50-32, lost to San Antonio in NBA Finals (4-0)

'07-08: 45-37, lost to Boston in conference semi-finals (4-3)

'09-09: 66-16, currently 6-0 in playoffs

 

Lebron is being unfairly criticized, at times, for carrying inferior teams further than they should be and then coming up short. They had no business taking Detroit to 7 in '05-06, or being in the finals the next year, or pushing Boston to the brink last year. Yet they did, because of LJ. On the flipside, he missed a 3-4 foot shot in Boston last year that could have stole home court from the C's and possibly lead to a Cavs series win...I think there is some validity to questioning him on plays like that. But, there's only so much to that when a guy goes into Boston and hangs 45 on the Celtics in a 97-92 game 7 loss.

 

JMO

 

 

I totally agree.

The east is stronger at the top than it has been in the past...but, KG's injury means Boston isn't the same team that won 62 games. The Magic are on the rise, but I don't think they're quite there yet...not ready for a title run. After that, the east is still a bunch of pushovers...Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit, Philly...they're just not that good.

 

Boston won 20 out of 24 games without KG...so that point has little validity.

 

Outside of Cleveland and L.A, what other teams have legit chances to win an NBA championship? The 4 and 6 seeds (Portland and Dallas) in the West had better records against the east than the 2, 3, and 5 seeds. I'd say Boston and Orlando have better chances at winning an NBA title than Houston, Dallas, and Denver.

 

Orlando was 22-8 v West. (2-0 v Lakers)

Boston was 21-9 v West.

 

Dallas was 21-9 v East.

Denver was 19-11 v East.

Houston was 18-12 v East.

 

Out west, all 8 playoff teams last season were at 50 wins or better...this year 6 of them were and the other two won 48 and 49.

 

The #8 team in the west would have had home court in the first round of the eastern playoffs. Phoenix would have been a 5 in the east and they've been watching since the playoffs started.

 

The east is as good (better IMO) than the west at the very top. If all teams are healthy, I'd take Cleveland, Boston and Orlando over the top three out west. But, there's a big gap in the two conferences after that.

 

Phoenix is the only team out of the west that missed out on the playoffs that would have actually made the east playoffs.

 

Top to bottom the East was much better than the west this year. The West had 6 teams that won less than 30 games and 2 that won less than 20. The east had just ONE team that failed to win 30 or more games.

 

The facts don't back up your statement that the east has a bunch of pushovers considering the east only had one team that wasn't competitive all year.

When will Cleveland lose their first playoff game? After James retires.:lol:

Boston won 20 out of 24 games without KG...so that point has little validity.

 

Please.

 

The Celtics were 21-8 this season without Garnett...that record was improved by a strong finish. Counting the playoffs, they're 27-13 without him. A lot of teams can sustain a strong level for a brief time, but over the long haul, you can't replace or make up for a guy like KG. His injury took any suspense that may have existed out of the eastern conference playoffs.

 

But, regardless of the record...Boston is not even close to the team that won a championship without Garnett. He's their best overall player and the key to their defense, and defense is what won the title for them.

 

They've got enough talent and experience to possibly knock off a more talented Orlando team, but that's as far as they can get.

 

No validity to Boston not being the same team without Garnett? Are you kidding me?:idunno:

Likely HOF? :lol: I agree with everything to you say. IMO this will settle the debate, whoever takes the Finals can take the title of best player on the planet.

 

Wouldn't that only settle the best TEAM on the planet? The best player on the planet should probabley be the one who is the MVP. That would make much more sense than it being a team thing. By your reasoning the bench warmer for the UNC Tarheels is better than Blake Griffin.

Please.

 

The Celtics were 21-8 this season without Garnett...that record was improved by a strong finish. Counting the playoffs, they're 27-13 without him. A lot of teams can sustain a strong level for a brief time, but over the long haul, you can't replace or make up for a guy like KG. His injury took any suspense that may have existed out of the eastern conference playoffs.

 

But, regardless of the record...Boston is not even close to the team that won a championship without Garnett. He's their best overall player and the key to their defense, and defense is what won the title for them.

 

They've got enough talent and experience to possibly knock off a more talented Orlando team, but that's as far as they can get.

 

No validity to Boston not being the same team without Garnett? Are you kidding me?:idunno:

 

 

Agreed, the vacuum left in the post by Garnett is big enough a blind man could see it. Scal, Perk, and the Baby combined are having trouble filling it.

Please.

 

The Celtics were 21-8 this season without Garnett...that record was improved by a strong finish. Counting the playoffs, they're 27-13 without him. A lot of teams can sustain a strong level for a brief time, but over the long haul, you can't replace or make up for a guy like KG. His injury took any suspense that may have existed out of the eastern conference playoffs.

 

But, regardless of the record...Boston is not even close to the team that won a championship without Garnett. He's their best overall player and the key to their defense, and defense is what won the title for them.

 

They've got enough talent and experience to possibly knock off a more talented Orlando team, but that's as far as they can get.

 

No validity to Boston not being the same team without Garnett? Are you kidding me?:idunno:

 

When did I ever say Boston was still the same team, without KG? :idunno: My point was, they are still a competitive team and one of the favorites to come out of the east because of guys like Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo. The injury to Leon Powe really hurt the Celtics depth, but they're still capable of making a championship run without KG. I personally don't see them making it past Cleveland, but I wouldn't count them out until they're officially eliminated.

 

If you re read the majority of my post that you failed to quote, you'll see that my initial point was to show you that I liked Boston and Orlando's chances at winning a championship or making it that far more than any other team in the west, not named the Lakers. The East overall was stronger than the west this past year and the remaining teams in the west haven't fared too well against the east, outside of the Lakers and Dallas...who's down 3-0 to the Nuggets.

The Cavs may not lose until the NBA Finals.

 

I am going to go out on a limb though. I think the Cavs will lose one of the upcoming games in Atlanta. The Hawks play really well at home. Plus, Atlanta is one of the biggest distractions as a city for visiting NBA teams in the league...I look for Cleveland to look unfocused in one of these games and allow the Hawks to get a fairly convincing victory (10 to 15 points).

 

I was WAY off! The Cavs looked great again in a tough road environment.

Man, they sure look tough, I think if they see Orlando they may lose a game or two in that one....but it seems they are on a collision course with the Finals.