Well with how some people talk of Dunn on here, then he would be an improvement over Bay, and Drew. So if he was that good, you think they would have figured something out. You would have thought the Yankees, Angles, or any team that was looking for a bat this offseason would have got him. You would have thought any team who was even close to a contender would have wanted him. I bet he would have went to any team who was a contender if he had the chance, but the only team who made sure they got him was the Nationals. WOW! I mean I am not saying he is horrible, but I don't think he is as good as some people make him out to be. If he was he wouldn't be a National right now.

 

Yeah if you compare Dunn to players in the outfield the Reds have now, yeah he has better numbers. However would having him make the Reds a better team? I would say no! We would be the same team as we have been in the past, and would be afraid to run and stuff, because wouldn't want to take a chance of getting an out with Dunn coming out. The team would be centered around waiting for the homerun ball again. How well has that done us over the years? It seemed like with Dunn, anytime we played a good team he didn't do anything. He seemed like he put up his numbers when going against bad teams or bad pitchers for the majority of the time. There is more to look at than just numbers when deciding if your team would be better off with that person or not. The Reds are better off without him IMO, and apparently a lot of other teams felt the same way.

 

 

It isn't as simple as being better than Bay or Drew. Bay, Drew, Youkilis, and Lowell were already under contract. They weren't going to trade Youkilis and Drew and Lowell's contracts would make them very hard, if not impossible to trade. Bay would have been the only one that would have been tradable and no, Dunn isn't that much of, if any upgrade over Bay. Don't think for a second, however that if Lowell would have not been healing properly the Sox wouldn't have made a big push to get Dunn. The Yankees already had Matsui, Nady, Swisher, Damon, Teixeira and Posada under contract to fill their corner outfielder, first base and DH spots. The Angels outfield was already filled as well. It isn't as simple as just "working something out" when you're dealing with multi-year mega million dollar contracts. Dunn could have gotten a one year deal to a contender easily if he'd been willing to take one earlier in the offseason. He and his agent made the same mistake several very good players made this year. He thought that even with the problems with the economy that owners would still pony up multi-year deals to established stars. By the time he was willing to look at a one year deal his suitors were limited.

 

As for the Reds, they wouldn't have had to have built their offense around him but his bat in the middle of the lineup definately would benefit their offense much more than Dickerson/Hairston. If you don't think opposing managers would adjust how they pitch to the other Reds hitters knowing that Dunn was coming up you're sadly mistaken. If you have EE hitting behind Phillips or Votto with first base open what kind of pitches do you think they'll get? Not nearly as good as they would with Dunn in there. I'm not saying he's a top 20 player or anything but for a team that is going to struggle to score runs he would be a welcome addition. Like I said, lets look at the numbers that the Reds joke of a platoon in left produces this season compared to Dunn.

It isn't as simple as being better than Bay or Drew. Bay, Drew, Youkilis, and Lowell were already under contract. They weren't going to trade Youkilis and Drew and Lowell's contracts would make them very hard, if not impossible to trade. Bay would have been the only one that would have been tradable and no, Dunn isn't that much of, if any upgrade over Bay. Don't think for a second, however that if Lowell would have not been healing properly the Sox wouldn't have made a big push to get Dunn. The Yankees already had Matsui, Nady, Swisher, Damon, Teixeira and Posada under contract to fill their corner outfielder, first base and DH spots. The Angels outfield was already filled as well. It isn't as simple as just "working something out" when you're dealing with multi-year mega million dollar contracts. Dunn could have gotten a one year deal to a contender easily if he'd been willing to take one earlier in the offseason. He and his agent made the same mistake several very good players made this year. He thought that even with the problems with the economy that owners would still pony up multi-year deals to established stars. By the time he was willing to look at a one year deal his suitors were limited.

 

As for the Reds, they wouldn't have had to have built their offense around him but his bat in the middle of the lineup definately would benefit their offense much more than Dickerson/Hairston. If you don't think opposing managers would adjust how they pitch to the other Reds hitters knowing that Dunn was coming up you're sadly mistaken. If you have EE hitting behind Phillips or Votto with first base open what kind of pitches do you think they'll get? Not nearly as good as they would with Dunn in there. I'm not saying he's a top 20 player or anything but for a team that is going to struggle to score runs he would be a welcome addition. Like I said, lets look at the numbers that the Reds joke of a platoon in left produces this season compared to Dunn.

 

And I said that is not a good comparison! The reds with Dunn in their offense would do things totally different on offense. They would wait for the homerun ball as they always have. I mean they did that last year as well when they had Dunn. Where has that gotten the team? So yeah I mean Dunn will put up better numbers than our platoon out in left. However its not a good comparison, because every situation would be different. The Reds will get some runs just by stealing bases and playing small ball with these guys. Yeah no one will have the fantasy numbers, but I bet the offense would still score around the same amount, if they had Dunn this year. With Dunn they wouldn't be playing small ball, and well the rest of the team still wouldn't be world beaters on offense. So still wouldn't be scoring many runs a game with him. As for the other teams bit again, you talked about how teams like the Yankees and Angles already had players. But hmmm where did they get those guys, that is right in free agency, the same free agency where Dunn was at this year. With as much as a lot of you all value Dunn on here, you would think that those teams would have had Dunn as one of the main players to get, and would give out the multiyear deal that he wanted. I mean he is young, so if he is as good as you all say, then you would think those teams wouldn't have minded at all giving him a multiyear deal. The thing is someone might put up good individual numbers, but that doesn't mean that person would make your team better, or would be a good fit with the other types of players you have.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that I think the Reds are better off without him, and you disagree. So we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

It isn't as simple as being better than Bay or Drew. Bay, Drew, Youkilis, and Lowell were already under contract. They weren't going to trade Youkilis and Drew and Lowell's contracts would make them very hard, if not impossible to trade. Bay would have been the only one that would have been tradable and no, Dunn isn't that much of, if any upgrade over Bay. Don't think for a second, however that if Lowell would have not been healing properly the Sox wouldn't have made a big push to get Dunn. The Yankees already had Matsui, Nady, Swisher, Damon, Teixeira and Posada under contract to fill their corner outfielder, first base and DH spots. The Angels outfield was already filled as well. It isn't as simple as just "working something out" when you're dealing with multi-year mega million dollar contracts. Dunn could have gotten a one year deal to a contender easily if he'd been willing to take one earlier in the offseason. He and his agent made the same mistake several very good players made this year. He thought that even with the problems with the economy that owners would still pony up multi-year deals to established stars. By the time he was willing to look at a one year deal his suitors were limited.

 

As for the Reds, they wouldn't have had to have built their offense around him but his bat in the middle of the lineup definately would benefit their offense much more than Dickerson/Hairston. If you don't think opposing managers would adjust how they pitch to the other Reds hitters knowing that Dunn was coming up you're sadly mistaken. If you have EE hitting behind Phillips or Votto with first base open what kind of pitches do you think they'll get? Not nearly as good as they would with Dunn in there. I'm not saying he's a top 20 player or anything but for a team that is going to struggle to score runs he would be a welcome addition. Like I said, lets look at the numbers that the Reds joke of a platoon in left produces this season compared to Dunn.

And don't forget the attitude and example he would be setting for all the young players in the clubhouse.:ohbrother:

Yesterday Dunn one for four and Griffey 0 for 3. Someone forgot to post their stats for this thread.

Yesterday Dunn one for four and Griffey 0 for 3. Someone forgot to post their stats for this thread.

 

 

Nobody forgot, somebody has just been busy. There's no rule stating that I have to be the one to post the stats.

And I said that is not a good comparison! The reds with Dunn in their offense would do things totally different on offense. They would wait for the homerun ball as they always have. I mean they did that last year as well when they had Dunn. Where has that gotten the team? So yeah I mean Dunn will put up better numbers than our platoon out in left. However its not a good comparison, because every situation would be different. The Reds will get some runs just by stealing bases and playing small ball with these guys. Yeah no one will have the fantasy numbers, but I bet the offense would still score around the same amount, if they had Dunn this year. With Dunn they wouldn't be playing small ball, and well the rest of the team still wouldn't be world beaters on offense. So still wouldn't be scoring many runs a game with him. As for the other teams bit again, you talked about how teams like the Yankees and Angles already had players. But hmmm where did they get those guys, that is right in free agency, the same free agency where Dunn was at this year. With as much as a lot of you all value Dunn on here, you would think that those teams would have had Dunn as one of the main players to get, and would give out the multiyear deal that he wanted. I mean he is young, so if he is as good as you all say, then you would think those teams wouldn't have minded at all giving him a multiyear deal. The thing is someone might put up good individual numbers, but that doesn't mean that person would make your team better, or would be a good fit with the other types of players you have.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that I think the Reds are better off without him, and you disagree. So we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Actually Lowell, Bay, Nady, and Swisher were acquired through trades. Regardless, the most important FACT is that they were already with their respective teams before Dunn hit the free agent market. Again, they were already under contract so the teams would have had to move them to find a spot for Dunn. Since a lot of their contracts were very expensive it would not be productive to try and give them away in order to get Dunn. The only teams that you mentioned that went out and signed a free agent in the spots where Dunn could play was the Yankees with Teixeira and the Angels with Abreu. I don't think anyone would dispute that Tex is a better player and Abreu saw much earlier than Dunn that a short term contract would be all that was out there and he took it--and took away another landing spot for Dunn. Just because a guy is a free agent, young and productive doesn't mean that a team has the resources and spot to sign him. Not even the Yankees.....Actually especially the Yankees, who are flooded with 1B,DH and corner outfielders due to health concerns about Posada and Matsui. The teams that could have afforded him had no spot for him.

Nobody forgot, somebody has just been busy. There's no rule stating that I have to be the one to post the stats.

 

Only on the good days:lol:

I figured I better look the numbers up first thing this morning before a couple of people get upset.

 

Last night: Griffey Jr- 1-4 with 2 K's

 

Dunn 0-2 with 3 BB and 1 run scored

The Nationals had the day off, and Griffey Jr. didn't play in Seattle's game.

I figured I better look the numbers up first thing this morning before a couple of people get upset.

 

Last night: Griffey Jr- 1-4 with 2 K's

 

Dunn 0-2 with 3 BB and 1 run scored

 

Dunn now has over 800 walks which I believe puts him 15th all-time.

That's the way to go LRCW, up early getting the job done. :banana::clap:

Here's the updated ststs on Griffey and Dunn:

 

Player---------BA---AB---H---HR---RBI---BB---SO

 

Griffey--------.182--11---2---1-----1-----6----2

 

Dunn----------.308--13---4---1-----6-----6----2

Dunners stats look pretty good so far, Sucks that those stats are on an 0-4 team.

Here's the updated ststs on Griffey and Dunn:

 

Player---------BA---AB---H---HR---RBI---BB---SO

 

Griffey--------.182--11---2---1-----1-----6----2

 

Dunn----------.308--13---4---1-----6-----6----2

 

 

 

Thanks for the update. Yesterday's numbers

 

Dunn: 1-3 with an RBI, and 3 BB's.

 

Griffey Jr: 0-1 with 3 BB and 1 run scored.

I miss those two guys, a lot..