That is a question I was going to post for some of our more adept readers of history like HHSDad, Peprock, bballfamily....how prevalent was Muslim, Buddhists in 1776 that our Founding Fathers would have thought that was a religion that would be prevalent in this country?

 

As they say on talk radio, I will hang up and listen for the response.

 

 

Our Founding Fathers also believed that slaves in bodage were not men but property. Do you think Washington, Rutledge, Madison, among others envisioned a day when they would be considered equal to whites?

 

Our Founding Fathers also did not give the right of voting to women. It took nearly 150 years to do that. Do you think they may have imagined at some time that women could swing an election?

 

The prevelance of a contrary faith to Christianity or Judaism is not a point that is relevant. They chose liberty, religious freedom for all, no matter what that choice is. If we want to see theocracy in action, check out the Massachusetts Bay Colony prior to the early 1700's.

The debate is whether or not it does in my opinion, I'm of the strict belief that the founding fathers didn't mean the first amendment to be interpreted like it is today, but rather meant it to keep out a catholic protestant debate. If that's what they meant then that's what the law means and the law doesn't protect other religions. It may be time to adopt a law that does allow protection of other religions, but to me the one in place doesn't do that because a law should be read in it's original intent. Laws should not be subject to their meanings changing at the whim of a judge.

 

Then where would Jefferson fall in that category? He was a Deist.

 

Actually the story of the push by Madison for the First Amendment came from an unlikely group. Baptists in Central VA, led by John Leland told Madison they would support his election to the Constitutional Convention if he secured Religious Liberty for ALL people. Baptists knew the other side well. Prior to 1786, some tax monies from VA went to the Anglican Church because they were the State Church. Baptists were also being beaten and imprisoned as late as 1778 in the state. Why? For being Baptist.

 

The law we have in place works just fine. It provides liberty to all to worship. It's worked well all these years and still does today.

The problem with claiming a specific intent of the Founders is that there are numerous individuals we consider to be Founding Fathers and there is considerable disagreement between the lot of them on a variety of subjects concerning government. Additionally, while in many ways their ability to compromise and their reliance on the virtue and vice of ambiguity has given our Constitution longevity and authority not previously found, it comes at the expense of what their original intent, if such a thing exists, might well have been. And we should also be clear that the Founders got a lot of things terribly wrong, thus assuming the Founders were always right is a bit dangerous.

 

If the Founders had intended to create a theocracy, or did not truly want religious freedom, they would have been clear about that.

No I am not blaming other religions. I am blaming ourselves for not acknowledging Jesus Christ.

 

So you're blaming those that do not acknowledge Jesus Christ for our problems, correct?

 

Would that not include other religions?

On a side note, the depth of history knowledge by many of you, including those I disagree with, is quite impressive.

The very basis of the christian faith:

 

Jesus says these are the two greatest commandments

 

love God with all of your heart

love your neighbor as yourself

 

Where does capitalism, or social darwinism fall in either of these two categories? If our laws, and our ideas, and our principles are not in line with these then we are not a Christian nation. Simply acknowledging God does not make us a Judeo Christian nation. If we want to be that, we do not try to take rights and liberties away from people who are different from us, we love them, we make it easier for people to get health care, even if that means I make less money, we are good stewards of the earth for future generations . . .

 

we are meek, we are peacemakers, we mourn, we give when we see others in need.

 

We are not a Christian nation, but I think with this new administration we are heading in the right direction.

Then where would Jefferson fall in that category? He was a Deist.

 

Actually the story of the push by Madison for the First Amendment came from an unlikely group. Baptists in Central VA, led by John Leland told Madison they would support his election to the Constitutional Convention if he secured Religious Liberty for ALL people. Baptists knew the other side well. Prior to 1786, some tax monies from VA went to the Anglican Church because they were the State Church. Baptists were also being beaten and imprisoned as late as 1778 in the state. Why? For being Baptist.

 

The law we have in place works just fine. It provides liberty to all to worship. It's worked well all these years and still does today.

 

The Danburry Baptist letter you are referring to, proves my point. It was meant to stop Catholic and Protestant feuds or Protestant Protestant feuds (like when the Protestants took over England in the 1600's), it wasn't about other religions.

The Danburry Baptist letter you are referring to, proves my point. It was meant to stop Catholic and Protestant feuds or Protestant Protestant feuds (like when the Protestants took over England in the 1600's), it wasn't about other religions.

 

Ah, I didn't refer to the Danbury letter. Although I'm very aware of it (being a Good Baptist. )

 

Jefferson was a Deist. A Deist in Colonial era was more influenced by the Age of Enlightenment than the Holy Spirit. Jefferson verbally would "doff his hat" toward a creator but did not believe that creating force was at play in the current world. There is simply no way to make him an "orthodox" Christian. The man literally cut up the Gospels and created the text he believed was actually the words of Jesus.

 

BTW, Protestants did not take over England in the 1600's. If they had then the Pilgrims and Puritans would not have come over. The Church of England (Anglican) is not a Protestant church. They did not remove the doctrine of Catholicism, they merely removed the head of the church from being the Pope and handing it to the King of England. (See Henry VIII) The Anglican church was just as rough on Protestants (Puritans, Sepratists, Baptists, Quakers, Lutherans) as the Roman Catholic church had been.

 

I think the Founders wanted to prevent the corruption, scandals and massacres they had observed in Europe from taking place in their Democratic Experiment. To that end they believed a protection of Religious Liberty for all was what was needed.

 

I would ask this, not just of you but of others with similar convictions, if Religious Liberty is only to apply to Christians in this nation, and our Government and systems must only allow Christian expression (irregardless of what form or fashion, i.e. Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, Jehovah Witness) then do we ban the practice, liberty or mission activity of any other faith like Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism?

So you're blaming those that do not acknowledge Jesus Christ for our problems, correct?

 

Would that not include other religions?

 

I think the bigger problems are those who acknowledge Christ with their words, but deny him by their actions.

 

According to some polls 83% of the U.S. population identify themselves as Christian. How can such a large majority tolerate some of the policies of this country and some of the leaders who are elected?

I think the bigger problems are those who acknowledge Christ with their words, but deny him by their actions.

 

According to some polls 83% of the U.S. population identify themselves as Christian. How can such a large majority tolerate some of the policies of this country and some of the leaders who are elected?

 

I agree with the bolded. However, I don't think this is a new phenomenon.

We were, and our founders intended us to be regardless of what many will say. However, the courts and politicians have twisted the founders words and we no longer are.

 

Are you serious??? Didn't the founding fathers also write the Constitution??? Doesn't the constitution seperate the church and the state? If they wrote that, how can you draw any inference of intent other than their written words?

According to Newsweek, ... we have seen the 'End of Christian America". It is ironic that while the number has fallen from 86% to 76% of Americans who claim to be Christian, ... isn't that still a majority? Also, the article does not claim that it is the end, just that the numbers have dropped in the past decade.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/192583?GT1=43002

The American People, make up a majority(though declining) Christian nation, but the American Government has never been in any sense a Christian Government. I would consider the government to be religiously neutral. Christ, God, Bible, ect. are not ever mentioned in the Constition, and Religion is only mentioned in EXCLUSIONARY terms; as in there shall be no religious test for any office.

 

As far as the roles of the Courts, in any instance, I would say if the founders didn't want what they created changed or interpretted differently, then they would not have included Article III in the Constition.

We were, and our founders intended us to be regardless of what many will say. However, the courts and politicians have twisted the founders words and we no longer are.

 

If it was our founding fathers intention to be a christian nation then wouldn't the U.S. have a national religion and wouldn't be illegal for U.S. citizens to pratice other relgions...

Are you serious??? Didn't the founding fathers also write the Constitution??? Doesn't the constitution seperate the church and the state? If they wrote that, how can you draw any inference of intent other than their written words?

 

They also said all men are created equal, and we know they didn't mean African-Americans, Jews, Native Americans, or Asians. As I stated earlier actions speak as loud as words.