Wow. You really think you've nailed me with something? Really? I suppose I don't know how to argue with you then. It's obvious that you've won the battle of wits. I concede.:notworthy:

 

I think anyone would consider that double talk. Maybe it's just me :idunno:

Again, we are comparing players, not teams. The best defense in the league has way more to do with those last numbers than he does IMO. The winning percentage for a QB is absolutely a stat that needs to be looked at, but it often doesn't determine who the better player is.

 

No. If you're basing "better" solely on the stats compiled, it doesn't. However, I like to look at the entire body of work...that means stats, overall team performance, what he does in clutch moments, etc.

 

The thing is, we can say things like QB A or QB B is better than Big Ben and he'd do the same things if he had the same supporting cast. But, that's just speculation. What I know, is that Ben has done the job. And, he has proven he can put up big numbers...32 TD and 11 Int in 2007...he just isn't asked to do that as much. Additionally, I suspect a patchwork o-line that lost its best player (Alan Faneca) to free agency contributed to his decrease in numbers this year. Despite that, he still lead his team to their second Super Bowl in 4 years...

 

He's proven himself. I can't say anyone other than Brady and Manning are ahead of him. And, I think he's an elite QB in the league right now, who has set himself up nicely to move up the all-time list depending on what he does throughout the rest of his career.

No. If you're basing "better" solely on the stats compiled, it doesn't. However, I like to look at the entire body of work...that means stats, overall team performance, what he does in clutch moments, etc.

 

The thing is, we can say things like QB A or QB B is better than Big Ben and he'd do the same things if he had the same supporting cast. But, that's just speculation. What I know, is that Ben has done the job. And, he has proven he can put up big numbers...32 TD and 11 Int in 2007...he just isn't asked to do that as much. Additionally, I suspect a patchwork o-line that lost its best player (Alan Faneca) to free agency contributed to his decrease in numbers this year. Despite that, he still lead his team to their second Super Bowl in 4 years...

 

He's proven himself. I can't say anyone other than Brady and Manning are ahead of him. And, I think he's an elite QB in the league right now, who has set himself up nicely to move up the all-time list depending on what he does throughout the rest of his career.

 

I respect your opinion and certainly your research. I look at the entire body of work too, but just weigh the stats a little more than you do. If I thought stats were the whole story then I would say he's not in the Top 10. The Super Bowl wins and general success move him up my list to about fifth on my list.

I respect your opinion and certainly your research. I look at the entire body of work too, but just weigh the stats a little more than you do. If I thought stats were the whole story then I would say he's not in the Top 10. The Super Bowl wins and general success move him up my list to about fifth on my list.

 

:thumb:

 

Same here man...I enjoy the debate. And, honestly, I don't have a problem with people choosing a few QB's over Big Ben. I just feel like, at this point, with two Super Bowls in 5 years combined with his ability in the clutch, he deserves to be at the top of the second tier.

 

He's got a long way to go to reach the level of Tom Brady though, IMO. To get there, he has to improve the numbers...

Yep, and considering that everyone here seems to agree that there are only 2 elite QB's in the league, I say that Ben is in the upper tier of the average QB's.:thumb:

 

Somewhere you got totally lost in the argument.

 

OR is trying to point out that you said Ben was an average quarterback after their loss to the Titans. You said he was "average at best." Now, after he wins the Super Bowl you are saying there is only 2 quarterbacks you would take over him. I am late to this argument, but looks like you are now going back on your word.

"Bashing" is such a harsh, ugly word. I prefer to think of it as "needling."

 

Yet Bengals fans are the only ones saying he isn't "elite"...

I loved him at Miami, thought he would be a decent pro. However, since he joined the Steelers, I have no choice but to hate him.

The way I see the QB debate is simple. If all 32 teams have the same Defenses, Olines, WRs, RBs, & Coaching Staffs, which QB would make you the best overall team....My rankings based on current NFL QBs....

 

1) Tom Brady- You'd have to be dumb to argue that one IMO.

2) Peyton Manning

3) Drew Brees

4) Kurt Warner

5) Phillip Rivers

6) Big Ben

7) Carson Palmer

8) Eli Manning

9) Donovan McNabb

10) Jay Cutler

He's also not elite.

 

Your saying that Carson isn't one of the elite QB's in the league? I disagree with you on this big time.

 

Ben is a better QB than Carson. He has the wins and rings to prove it.

Your saying that Carson isn't one of the elite QB's in the league? I disagree with you on this big time.

 

Ben is a better QB than Carson. He has the wins and rings to prove it.

 

He's a more successful QB than Carson. The fact that he plays on a great team doesn't make him the better QB though.

He's a more successful QB than Carson. The fact that he plays on a great team doesn't make him the better QB though.

 

I haven't seen anything from Carson Palmer to make me think other wise. :idunno:

He played big in this Super Bowl but I think just about anyone could have outperformed him in his first go around (22 passer rating) however, I don't think a lot of people realize just how much he had to go through to get back on top of his game ( motorcycle wreck, ect...) I will give him his props though he had an instant classic 4th quater drive to win his team the Super Bowl! Plus, it never hurts to have one of the best defenses year in and year out. I am not a Bengals fan just to clear anything up, but I still would take a few guys over him if I had my pick but he moved ahead of a few names on the board!

I haven't seen anything from Carson Palmer to make me think other wise. :idunno:

 

Yeah, but you only watch the Pittsburgh games when you all crush us. :lol:

I've always liked Roethlisberger, he just plays for a team I hate.

I've always liked Roethlisberger, he just plays for a team I hate.

FWIW- that's how I feel about Polamalu. What's not to like about a guy who is Carson's former roommate, is an incredible player, is Samoan and has awesome hair, and is a strict Catholic who gets more passionate about his faith than his football? Great guy....