I give Ben his props. Statistically he's average. He does play for an organization that has 6 Championships. What if the Bengals had Ben & Steelers had Carson?

 

 

Personally I think the Bengals would be a mentally tougher team if that was the case. Carson is probably more skill gifted, but Ben is much tougher mentally and physically, and is a better leader.

You didn't like the Cowboys uniforms, but you liked the Steelers helmet? I hate their uni's...

 

Cut me some slack — I was a 5-year-old little boy at the time. The Steelers colors and style seemed "tough," while Dallas' whole look seemed effeminate. Especially that silly little thing at the line where they'd come set, then everybody would raise up again, and then come set again. That silliness wore me out worse than Peyton's silly antics at the LOS.

Ben was 24th in qb rating this year. He's not elite.

 

He was also injured from day one of this season and still had the mental and physical toughness to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory.

Let's do a little comparison...

 

Jay Cutler - In two years as a starter, his QB Ratings were 88.1 and 86.0.

His best season...62.3%, 4526 Yards, 7.3 Avg, 25 TD, 18 Int

His average from two years as a starter...62.9%, 4012 Yards, 7.4 Avg, 23 TD, 16 Int

17-20 Career Record as starter, 0 playoffs

 

Eli Manning - Started final 7 games of rookie season. In 4 years since, his highest QB Rating was 86.4 (this year). His previous three years were all in the 70's.

Best season...60.3%, 3238 Yards, 6.8 Avg, 21 TD, 10 Int

Average season...56.6%, 3395 Yards, 6.5 Avg, 23 TD, 16 Int

42-29 Career as starter; 4-3 Playoff Record; One Super Bowl Title; Has made playoffs in all 4 full seasons as starter

 

Donovan McNabb - ESPN's game log doesn't go back to '99, so I can analyze McNabb's record as a starter from 2000. His highest QB Rating was 104.7. He's had one other season with a rating above 90....95.5 in 2006.

Best season...64.0%, 3875 Yards, 8.3 Avg, 31 TD, 8 Int

*Average season...59.4%, 3721 Yards, 6.9 Avg, 24 TD, 11 Int

79-41-1 as starter; 9-6 in playoffs; 1-4 in NFC Title Games; 0-1 in Super Bowl; made playoffs 6 times and has won at least one game in every playoff appearance

 

Tony Romo - Took over as starter in Week 7 of 2006...higest QB Rating was 97.4 and he's never been below 90.

Best season...64.4%, 4211 Yards, 8.1 Avg, 36 TD, 19 Int

Average season...63.0%, 4226 Yards, 7.9 Avg, 34 TD, 18 Int

27-13 as starter; 0-2 in playoffs; made playoffs in '06 and '07

 

Kurt Warner - OK, I'm not even going to try to plow through all his seasons to figure out when he started and when he didn't. He's had two QB Ratings above 100 and two more above 90. His best was 109.2.

Best season...65.1%, 4353 Yards, 8.7 Avg, 41 TD, 13 Int

*Average season...65.4%, 4197 Yards, 8.0 Avg, 27 TD, 17 Int

3 Super Bowls, 1 Win

 

Drew Brees - Has started from Year 2...highest QB Rating, 104.8 with two more years above 90.

Best season...65.5%, 3159 Yards, 7.9 Avg, 27 TD, 7 Int

*Average season...63.9%, 3930 Yards, 7.2 Avg, 25 TD, 15 Int

55-51 as starter, 1-2 in playoffs

 

Philip Rivers - Starter from 2006...QB Ratings, 92.0, 82.4 and 105.5.

Best season...65.3%, 4009 Yards, 8.4 Avg, 34 TD, 11 Int

Average season...62.5%, 3516 Yards, 7.5 Avg, 26 TD, 12 Int

33-15 as starter, 3-3 in playoffs; lost in conference title game

 

Carson Palmer - Highest rating, 101.1; one other season above 90.

Best season...67.8%, 3836 Yards, 7.5 Avg, 32 TD, 12 Int

*Average season...63.7%, 3847 Yards, 7.2 Avg, 26 TD, 16 Int

32-33 as starter; 0-1 in playoffs

 

Peyton Manning - 8 seasons with a QB Rating above 90, three of those over 100; best rating, 121.1

Best season...67.6%, 4557 Yards, 9.2 Avg, 49 TD, 10 Int

Average season...64.4%, 4148 Yards, 7.7 Avg, 30 TD, 15 Int

117-59 as starter; 7-8 in playoffs; 9 playoff appearances in 11 seasons; one Super Bowl title; 6 times has lost playoff opener

 

Tom Brady - Highest rating, 117.2; two other seasons above 90

Best season...68.9%, 4806 Yards, 8.3 Avg, 50 TD, 8 Int

Average season...63.0%, 3800 Yards, 7.2 Avg, 28 TD, 12 Int

86-25 as starter; 14-3 in playoffs; 3-1 in Super Bowls; has never had a losing season, has never lost a playoff opener and has multiple wins in all but one playoff appearance

 

Ben Roethlisberger - Best rating, 104.1 and two other seasons above 90.

Best season...65.3%, 3154 Yards, 7.8 Avg, 32 TD, 11 Int

*Average season...62.4%, 3328 Yards, 7.9 Avg, 19 TD, 15 Int

51-21 as starter; 8-2 in playoffs; 2-0 in Super Bowls

 

 

* - Per 16 game average (for players who had some seasons of less than 16 games)

Personally I think the Bengals would be a mentally tougher team if that was the case. Carson is probably more skill gifted, but Ben is much tougher mentally and physically, and is a better leader.

 

That's what makes him a great player. Also, I would add that he's a better playmaker...and playmakers win football games. Having one at the QB position is a real luxury. The play early in the Super Bowl when he scrambled around and avoided multiple sacks, then spun around and threw it to Heath Miller (I think) for a first down was vintage Ben. Not many guys can make that play (although Eli did something similar last year on the Tyree catch).

 

I think he's one of those guys that gives his team confidence having him under center...they know if he has a chance at the end, there's a good chance he'll deliver.

What else does he have to prove???? :confused:

What exactly do you want me to say about him? I think he is an above average QB on an excellent team. Are we talking one of the best right now? All time?

What exactly do you want me to say about him? I think he is an above average QB on an excellent team. Are we talking one of the best right now? All time?

 

Did you cut and paste that from a Brady thread a few years ago...:sssh:

This whole thread is Jim bashing Bengals fans for not saying Ben is elite.

 

Your tune sure has changed since 12-21-08. "For every solid game he has, he has a puker." "Average, at best."

First superbowl is a puker, this one was solid. Not sure where I'm losing you. I also said he's not among the elite, depending on your definition. But the quality of QB in this league is not stellar in my opinion. I can think of 2 I'd rather have. That's it.

 

 

You still following me? Or did I lose you again? Face it OR, I know you're a hater, but you won't catch me up in double talk when it comes to the Steelers. But I give you kudos for the effort.:clap:

Did you cut and paste that from a Brady thread a few years ago...:sssh:

Are you saying I said that or just people on here in general?

5wide,

 

Average season 19 TD and 15 INT, that is THE WORST of all the QB's you mentioned! Did your research change your mind at all?

First superbowl is a puker, this one was solid. Not sure where I'm losing you. I also said he's not among the elite, depending on your definition. But the quality of QB in this league is not stellar in my opinion. I can think of 2 I'd rather have. That's it.

 

 

You still following me? Or did I lose you again? Face it OR, I know you're a hater, but you won't catch me up in double talk when it comes to the Steelers. But I give you kudos for the effort.:clap:

 

You are talking down to me in the argument? Seriously? You are the one who was lost in the argument.

 

I won't catch you in double talk? That is all that I've done in this thread. How in the world is your post from 12-21 compared to now not double talk?

Are you saying I said that or just people on here in general?

 

The general comments about Brady before he received his just due...

5wide,

 

Average season 19 TD and 15 INT, that is THE WORST of all the QB's you mentioned! Did your research change your mind at all?

 

No. Why on earth would it?

 

Again, you guys want to cherry pick a couple of numbers...but there's far more good to counter it with.

 

Ben has had a QB rating over 90 in 3 of his 5 seasons. There are several guys who can't match that and some who only match it in more seasons.

 

How about these numbers?

 

.708

.800

2

 

There's only one guy on the list that can top those three numbers.

You are talking down to me in the argument? Seriously? You are the one who was lost in the argument.

 

I won't catch you in double talk? That is all that I've done in this thread. How in the world is your post from 12-21 compared to now not double talk?

Wow. You really think you've nailed me with something? Really? I suppose I don't know how to argue with you then. It's obvious that you've won the battle of wits. I concede.:notworthy:

No. Why on earth would it?

 

Again, you guys want to cherry pick a couple of numbers...but there's far more good to counter it with.

 

Ben has had a QB rating over 90 in 3 of his 5 seasons. There are several guys who can't match that and some who only match it in more seasons.

 

How about these numbers?

 

.708

.800

2

There's only one guy on the list that can top those three numbers.

Again, we are comparing players, not teams. The best defense in the league has way more to do with those last numbers than he does IMO. The winning percentage for a QB is absolutely a stat that needs to be looked at, but it often doesn't determine who the better player is.