Scott County to the 8th is incredibly illogical...but then again, it never made sense for Scott to be in the 8th to begin with. Look at a map...the Cardinals have to drive through the 11th region (Franklin County) to get to the majority of the 8th. They hang like the end of a hook on the far side of Franklin County, connected to the 8th only by Owen and Grant Counties to their north.

 

It would make a lot more sense to move the three Franklin County schools into the 8th than it would to move Scott County in. The Franklin schools already play a lot of the 8th Region schools, anyway.

 

I'm sure we could all find a lot of similar situations...but this said, I hope any moves are minimal. It's hard to maintain region identities and build healthy rivalries when the teams are switching regions.

 

If I were commish - as far as the 8th goes - I'd put SK back in the 9th, where all their history is (not trying to chase the Pioneers off, they've been wonderful 8th region members) and move Franklin County schools to the 8th. Franklin has always been in the 11th - probably a tie that's more political than anything else - but that would keep the 8th at the 16+ team level and makes a lot of sense from a geographic point of view. It would also solve at least one concern in the 8th in that Henry County and Eminence could be re-united in the same district as follows:

 

29th - Oldham Co., South Oldham, North Oldham, Trimble County

30th - Shelby Co., Spencer Co., Henry County, Eminence

31st - Anderson County, Franklin Co., Frankfort, Western Hills, Owen Co.

32nd - Grant Co., Gallatin Co., Walton-Verona, Carroll Co., Williamstown

I do know that moving Franklin Co schools to the 8th was considered the last time the KHSAA re-districted.

 

Geographically, this makes a lot of sense. But all the political machinations means it will probably never see the light of day...

If that scenario takes place, which does make sense geographically, I would offer the following. Number the District however you want.

 

Grant, Williamstown, Walton, and Owen.

Carroll, Henry, Trimble, Gallatin, and Eminence.

Oldham, South Oldham, North Oldham, and Shelby.

Anderson, Frankfort, Franklin, Western Hills, and Spencer.

 

I not only think this makes sense geographically, but it offers a competitive balance year after year as well. It gives a team like Trimble a chance to compete for the Regional tournament yearly. This alignment also maintains and produces other rivalries as well.

I'll be surprised if GRC is moved. There is quite a bit of political clout over there and I would think they'd fight that move as hard as possible.

 

The 10th is really spread out right now and Northern KY is a mess with schools in the same county in different regions. I would think the KHSAA would try to fix those problems whenever the next re-alignment comes about.

 

I'm sure the schools in Franklin Co. would rather be in the 8th, but I don't see who else could move in to the 11th to take their place since there are 3 high schools there.

I'll be surprised if GRC is moved. There is quite a bit of political clout over there and I would think they'd fight that move as hard as possible.

 

The 10th is really spread out right now and Northern KY is a mess with schools in the same county in different regions. I would think the KHSAA would try to fix those problems whenever the next re-alignment comes about.

 

I'm sure the schools in Franklin Co. would rather be in the 8th, but I don't see who else could move in to the 11th to take their place since there are 3 high schools there.

 

The reason for this is because Kenton Co is so big. If I'm not mistaken, it is actually one of the biggest counties in Kentucky. I do see something wrong with Scott being in the 10th though, when they are exactly 7 miles from Holmes and less than 2 miles from Calvary Christian who is also in the 10th.

 

Scott and Calvary Christian should both IMO be in the 9th, but SK is right where they should be in the 8th.

 

The original 9th region consisted of:

 

33rd: Boone, Conner, Ryle, Simon Kenton, St Henry, Heritage

34th: Dixie, Beechwood, Villa, Lloyd, Scott, Calvary Christian

35th: Holmes, Covcath, Ludlow, Holy Cross, Cov. Latin (doesn't participate in post season play anymore)

36th: Highlands, Newport, Newcath, Dayton, Bellevue

I can't see them moving anyone OUT of the 11th. It's not like there have been new schools built there to cause a bunch of 5 or 6 team districts.

 

There's really no reason to move anyone. Some of them would just like to get out.

I agree Eta - Boone Co is huge too. I believe they have 5 schools now with Conner, Ryle, Boone, Cooper, and Heritage.

 

The only half-way legit reason I've heard for GRC to the 11th and Montgomery to the 16th is so that the 10th doesn't reach so far south.

 

Are there 5 and 6 team districts in the 9th Region?

I agree Eta - Boone Co is huge too. I believe they have 5 schools now with Conner, Ryle, Boone, Cooper, and Heritage.

 

The only half-way legit reason I've heard for GRC to the 11th and Montgomery to the 16th is so that the 10th doesn't reach so far south.

 

Are there 5 and 6 team districts in the 9th Region?

 

I agree. Thinking about it though, GRC to the 11th would make a little sense, being they aren't very far from Lex.

 

Boone Co. has 5 schools, but Heritage is a private school. Ryle, Cooper, and Conner are all within a 10 mile radius of one another, with Ryle and Cooper probably being 5 miles apart.

 

The districts in NKY are as follows:

 

33rd: Boone, Ryle, Cooper, Conner, Heritage (5 team district)

34th: Dixie, Villa, Lloyd, St. Henry, Ludlow (5 team district)

35th: Holmes, Covcath, Beechwood, Holy Cross

36th: Highlands, Newport, Newcath, Bellevue, Dayton (5 team district)

 

In years past though, there were 6 and 7 team districts.

Scott County to the 8th is incredibly illogical...but then again, it never made sense for Scott to be in the 8th to begin with. Look at a map...the Cardinals have to drive through the 11th region (Franklin County) to get to the majority of the 8th. They hang like the end of a hook on the far side of Franklin County, connected to the 8th only by Owen and Grant Counties to their north.

 

It would make a lot more sense to move the three Franklin County schools into the 8th than it would to move Scott County in. The Franklin schools already play a lot of the 8th Region schools, anyway.

 

I'm sure we could all find a lot of similar situations...but this said, I hope any moves are minimal. It's hard to maintain region identities and build healthy rivalries when the teams are switching regions.

 

If I were commish - as far as the 8th goes - I'd put SK back in the 9th, where all their history is (not trying to chase the Pioneers off, they've been wonderful 8th region members) and move Franklin County schools to the 8th. Franklin has always been in the 11th - probably a tie that's more political than anything else - but that would keep the 8th at the 16+ team level and makes a lot of sense from a geographic point of view. It would also solve at least one concern in the 8th in that Henry County and Eminence could be re-united in the same district as follows:

 

29th - Oldham Co., South Oldham, North Oldham, Trimble County

30th - Shelby Co., Spencer Co., Henry County, Eminence

31st - Anderson County, Franklin Co., Frankfort, Western Hills, Owen Co.

32nd - Grant Co., Gallatin Co., Walton-Verona, Carroll Co., Williamstown

 

I do know that moving Franklin Co schools to the 8th was considered the last time the KHSAA re-districted.

 

Geographically, this makes a lot of sense. But all the political machinations means it will probably never see the light of day...

 

 

This makes the most sense of any redistricting in my opinion.

If that scenario takes place, which does make sense geographically, I would offer the following. Number the District however you want.

 

Grant, Williamstown, Walton, and Owen.

Carroll, Henry, Trimble, Gallatin, and Eminence.

Oldham, South Oldham, North Oldham, and Shelby.

Anderson, Frankfort, Franklin, Western Hills, and Spencer.

 

I not only think this makes sense geographically, but it offers a competitive balance year after year as well. It gives a team like Trimble a chance to compete for the Regional tournament yearly. This alignment also maintains and produces other rivalries as well.

 

Redsfan, you're heart's in the right place, but what you're proposing is a complete upheaval of the region, not a simple re-districting. And I don't think re-districting for "competitive balance" is consistent with the goals of competitive athletics. What are we telling the kids, "if you can't win, we'll move you into another district with other teams that can't win"? You're basically reverting to saying that you'll do anything to win...if you can't do it on the field/court, you'll do it administratively.

 

What does that tell the players?

 

A few years ago, the KHSAA posted the schools' comments on the proposed football re-districting plan online for all to review. One school's objection to their placement - which remember was based entirely on enrollment and nothing else - was this: "Can't compete at this level." Can you imagine what the players felt like when they heard about this, as I'm certain they did?

 

Competitive excellence is about the reaching for the brass ring, and not always the attainment of it. These values translate positively into everyday (non-athletic) life. Re-districting should be about geography, not developing competitive entitlement.

 

Besides, from a more practical standpoint, it's hard to project when teams will be dominant. Most people will tell you that Anderson County (5A football) and North Oldham (3A) are the top boys teams in the 8th this year - not the top 5 schools in enrollment (Shelby Co., Simon Kenton, Oldham County, South Oldham, or Grant County). And with new schools in Shelby and Oldham County slated for around 2015, the larger schools are about to get smaller...

Edited January 2, 200917 yr by ColonelMike
typos

Redsfan, you're heart's in the right place, but what you're proposing is a complete upheaval of the region, not a simple re-districting. And I don't think re-districting for "competitive balance" is consistent with the goals of competitive athletics. What are we telling the kids, "if you can't win, we'll move you into another district with other teams that can't win"? You're basically reverting to saying that you'll do anything to win...if you can't do it on the field/court, you'll do it administratively.

 

What does that tell the players?

 

A few years ago, the KHSAA posted the schools' comments on the proposed football re-districting plan online for all to review. One school's objection to their placement - which remember was based entirely on enrollment and nothing else - was this: "Can't compete at this level." Can you imagine what the players felt like when they heard about this, as I'm certain they did?

 

Competitive excellence is about the reaching for the brass ring, and not always the attainment of it. These values translate positively into everyday (non-athletic) life. Re-districting should be about geography, not developing competitive entitlement.

 

Besides, from a more practical standpoint, it's hard to project when teams will be dominant. Most people will tell you that Anderson County (5A football) and North Oldham (3A) are the top boys teams in the 8th this year - not the top 5 schools in enrollment (Shelby Co., Simon Kenton, Oldham County, South Oldham, or Grant County). And with new schools in Shelby and Oldham County slated for around 2015, the larger schools are about to get smaller...

 

Believe me no one preaches that more than I do. I am adamant about playing tougher competition in order to get better and hate to play the same team more than one time per season, other than tournament play. My initial thought process on the proposal was based on geographics relating to students traveling in the early part or middle of the week. I feel like geograpically my proposal made sense.

As far as upheaval of the region, I was only following suit with bringing in the new teams mentioned, what a better time to do an overall rebalance. Again geographically I think it makes for the least amount of travel.

People are always going to be tryng to switch districts/regions. No matter the alignment, someone is going to be upset.

 

However, I think the 8th could use some shuffling. The Franklin schools would be great additions, IMO. Replacing a school or two with them would seem to make sense. Simon Kenton shouldn't be in the 8th. The drive from Simon to the heart of the 8th is crazy long. W-V could move as well.

 

Im not sure how to do districting, although Mikes proposal makes a lot of sense.

I have really enjoyed this topic. Can anyone tell me why Beechwood and Ludlow changed districts a few years ago. Geographicly this doesn't make sense to me.

Believe me no one preaches that more than I do. I am adamant about playing tougher competition in order to get better and hate to play the same team more than one time per season, other than tournament play. My initial thought process on the proposal was based on geographics relating to students traveling in the early part or middle of the week. I feel like geograpically my proposal made sense.

As far as upheaval of the region, I was only following suit with bringing in the new teams mentioned, what a better time to do an overall rebalance. Again geographically I think it makes for the least amount of travel.

 

I can't disagree that your alignment is geographically logical. Although I really don't see a lot of difference - geographically - between your proposal and mine. It seems to me that your proposal disrupts existing rivalries more, but maybe not... I haven't done the math; maybe mileage-wise, your proposal is better...

 

But my real bone of contention was the comment about "competitive balance." I just think this has no place in the discussion... it sounds like a conspiracy; "us" vs. "them" (with one side being the poor little schools and the other side being the big, bad large schools). The kids are all kids, regardless of whether they go to Eminence (smallest 8th region school) or Shelby County (biggest). They deserve better than to have to deal with the concept of someone "tinkering with the odds" in order to ensure diversity of representation at the regional tournament... Some smaller schools, such as North Oldham, are destined to always be in a district with larger schools, because they are in the same county (Oldham Co and South Oldham). But I note that it hasn't seemed to hurt North's boys' team much...

 

I've been around the 8th for a long time...I have a great many friends at schools throughout the region...it just seems that I hear this (big vs. small) undercurrent often...and to me, it sounds like a plea for entitlements...and I don't think any of us really want that...

I can't disagree that your alignment is geographically logical. Although I really don't see a lot of difference - geographically - between your proposal and mine. It seems to me that your proposal disrupts existing rivalries more, but maybe not... I haven't done the math; maybe mileage-wise, your proposal is better...

 

But my real bone of contention was the comment about "competitive balance." I just think this has no place in the discussion... it sounds like a conspiracy; "us" vs. "them" (with one side being the poor little schools and the other side being the big, bad large schools). The kids are all kids, regardless of whether they go to Eminence (smallest 8th region school) or Shelby County (biggest). They deserve better than to have to deal with the concept of someone "tinkering with the odds" in order to ensure diversity of representation at the regional tournament... Some smaller schools, such as North Oldham, are destined to always be in a district with larger schools, because they are in the same county (Oldham Co and South Oldham). But I note that it hasn't seemed to hurt North's boys' team much...

I've been around the 8th for a long time...I have a great many friends at schools throughout the region...it just seems that I hear this (big vs. small) undercurrent often...and to me, it sounds like a plea for entitlements...

 

But North isn't really a small school. Of the sixteen schools in the region, at least 8 of them have a smaller enrollment. That puts NO in the top 50% enrollment-wise.

 

If you really want to look at a true small school being successful, look at Gallatin Co. I'm sure that I don't have to remind anyone of Gallatin's finish at the end of last season. Why is this very small school competitive with much larger ones?

 

Please explain what type of entitlements you think that small schools are making pleas for.

 

Lastly, why can the Oldham schools not be divided into separate districts, even regions? You mentioned this is one post, perhaps not this one. Henry Co and Eminence are in the same county, only a few miles apart, and are in separate districts. You mentioned re-districting disturbing rivalries. I agree. In separating HC and Eminence a true rivalry was distrupted.

Edited January 4, 200917 yr by True blue (and gold)

I can't disagree that your alignment is geographically logical. Although I really don't see a lot of difference - geographically - between your proposal and mine. It seems to me that your proposal disrupts existing rivalries more, but maybe not... I haven't done the math; maybe mileage-wise, your proposal is better...

 

But my real bone of contention was the comment about "competitive balance." I just think this has no place in the discussion... it sounds like a conspiracy; "us" vs. "them" (with one side being the poor little schools and the other side being the big, bad large schools). The kids are all kids, regardless of whether they go to Eminence (smallest 8th region school) or Shelby County (biggest). They deserve better than to have to deal with the concept of someone "tinkering with the odds" in order to ensure diversity of representation at the regional tournament... Some smaller schools, such as North Oldham, are destined to always be in a district with larger schools, because they are in the same county (Oldham Co and South Oldham). But I note that it hasn't seemed to hurt North's boys' team much...

 

I've been around the 8th for a long time...I have a great many friends at schools throughout the region...it just seems that I hear this (big vs. small) undercurrent often...and to me, it sounds like a plea for entitlements...and I don't think any of us really want that...

As I stated previously my proposal was based on the proximity of the schools in relation to mileage. The competitive balance was noticed until after the fact. But lets face it I am sure with my proposal all of the Oldham schools would much rather have poor little Trimble to kick around year after year to ensure a regional birth as opposed to Shelby County being in the district. I am also sure that in the back of everyones mind they are not wanting Scott County back in the Eighth because of their dominance. Ya I realize Scott County would be a drive for some but no more than a Grant or Williamstown driving to Spencer if your talking about the Region and its logistics.

Not sure what will happen with the redistricting but I do hope its in the best interest of the student athlete getting home at a decent hour during the week, and not in the best interest of the political machineists.

As I stated previously my proposal was based on the proximity of the schools in relation to mileage. The competitive balance was noticed until after the fact. But lets face it I am sure with my proposal all of the Oldham schools would much rather have poor little Trimble to kick around year after year to ensure a regional birth as opposed to Shelby County being in the district. I am also sure that in the back of everyones mind they are not wanting Scott County back in the Eighth because of their dominance. Ya I realize Scott County would be a drive for some but no more than a Grant or Williamstown driving to Spencer if your talking about the Region and its logistics.

Not sure what will happen with the redistricting but I do hope its in the best interest of the student athlete getting home at a decent hour during the week, and not in the best interest of the political machineists.

I agree so much with your last comment!

 

I have no problem with Scott County from a competitive standpoint...Oldham County did fine against Scott and always has. Note that in the final 5 years that Scott County was in the 8th, Oldham County won the region 3 times and Bullitt East won it once. Ditto with Shelby. But looking at a map, it just makes no sense, as I'm sure you'll agree, to add Scott County to the 8th. Even though some of the current 8th is as far from other parts of the 8th as Scott is, Scott simply isn't close to hardly any of the 8th Region. From a competitive standpoint, the schools that would undoubtedly have an issue with the addition of Scott County would be the smaller schools that were stuck in a Scott Co district.

 

If you look at the history of games between Trimble and the Oldham schools, you'll find that the Trimble ladies have been more than competitive with all three Oldham schools...in fact, they have been consistently superior to North, and very competitive with South and Oldham. The boys have had more difficulties with Oldham and North, but have been competitive with South and they beat Oldham this year. Bob Lauster is doing an incredible job in Bedford.

 

I think True Blue's comment regarding Gallatin is dead-on. Basketball is so different from football when it comes to the advantages larger enrollments bring. Why are Gallatin and Carroll typically so competitive with larger schools, but South and Grant - despite being 2 of the 4 largest schools in the region - so rarely in the region semi-finals or finals? (Grant last won the region in 1979; South has never won the region and only reached the region final once, in 1989) All four teams are well-coached, so that's hardly the issue... Obviously, Gallatin and Carroll haven't let their lack of size keep them down...

 

True Blue, I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding splitting the Oldham schools up. I've never indicated that they couldn't or shouldn't be split up...not sure what I may have said elsewhere to give you that thought. I apologize for the confusion...However, I seriously doubt that they ever will. From a geographic standpoint, it just makes sense, and probably always will.

 

I personally see no reason why teams in the same counties necessarily have to be in the same districts. But the obvious argument to keep teams in the same county in the same district would be travel time... Obviously, the 29th District isn't going to add Henry County and ditch Oldham County...there's just no reason.

 

True Blue - by "entitlement", I mean the concept of putting teams in districts so that the region can be "assured" of having "x" number of small schools in the region tournament every year by placing all the large schools in one or two districts. If that's the most logical alignment, that's fine. But if it's being manipulated just for this purpose, that's just pure wrong. Hence my objection to the concept of "Competitive Balance."