If Highlands was forced to play 3A who would come close t giving them a game.

Highlands 21 Central 13 Nov. 2 2007

You just told me I wasn't a Super because I wasn't thinking about travel expense and you justified your argument with the money/distance. The money and distance is the same if I have 6a numbers playing down for travel and expense as it would be for 3a and 4a moving up for travel and expense.

 

This is my point as to why I feel everyone should go by numbers and leave it alone.

 

Outside of the cost you have to take in to consideration that allowing a team from 6A to move down creates an unfair competition advantage for the 6A school because the pool of players and depth that they are going to have the first day of practice not taking into consideration caoch or scheme or any of that is an advantage.

Personally, with diesel at over $4 a gallon for school busses, six in one to help with travel seems to be much smarter. I just wish there was a way to fix one district in 5A with absurd travel.

 

I think Kissinger made a good point. From my review of the districts (admittedly without knowledge of the geography involved in all the districts), it looks as if you tried to move one of the teams in the 6 team districts into a 4 team district to make it a 5 team district, it would result in a lot more travel (not just for the one school moved but also the teams in the district that it would be joining because every other year, they'd have to come visit). And travel costs big bucks.

 

I would normally agree with you, but with the six class alignment, travel is not really an argument for our district. I do like our district and don't really want to change districts, but for the sake of argument, I will use the districts that I am more familiar with.

 

Raceland is in D1-5 with Fairview, who is five miles away; LCA which is three hours away; Nicholas Co around three hours away; and Paris three hours away.

 

Any number of schools in D1-7 or D1-8 could be changed to make two five team districts and one six team district instead of one four team district and two six team districts.

 

And this is not a stretch. Raceland used to play in a district with Paintsville, Allen Central, Hazard, and Wheelright.

 

This is just three districts in one class, I am sure there are other examples that I am not as familiar with.

 

I, honestly, do not think that travel expense is as big of an argument as some people make it to be. There are expenses associated with have athletic teams, and a school excepts those responsibilities when they agree to have said programs. Look at how many baseball teams drove to Florida for baseball games, or how many basketball programs traveled all over the state for holiday tournaments. Raceland is traveling three hours, apiece, for three district games, as well as three of their opponents traveling three hours to play Raceland.

 

I am not upset with the distance of travel, I just don't there should be six team districts when there are several four team districts. There should be five team districts first, and then if a six team district has to happen, then so be it.

 

CLASS 1A

District-1-5- Berea, Fairview, Lexington Christian, Nicholas County, Paris, Raceland

District-1-7- Harlan, Hazard, Jenkins, Pineville

District-1-8- Allen Central, Betsy Layne, Paintsville, Phelps, Pikeville, South Floyd

Outside of the cost you have to take in to consideration that allowing a team from 6A to move down creates an unfair competition advantage for the 6A school because the pool of players and depth that they are going to have the first day of practice not taking into consideration caoch or scheme or any of that is an advantage.

 

I understand everything you are saying and I agree 100%. However, when it was mentioned about Highlands and Cov. Cath playing in the district that the numbers show it was said who would they play. They would have to do to much traveling ect. How can you let some play up and then not let a team play down for the same reason. I just can't see how you could allow a team from the mountains travel all the way to Shebly Co. for a district game. Heck you can't even get to there from here. You first must drive 50 miles just to get started. Of course this isn't happening but my argument is that it would be a pretty good one. Maybe I am wrong but its hard for me believe this would take place. I give up! lol:flame:

Highlands 21 Central 13 Nov. 2 2007

 

I like that. :thumb:

I would normally agree with you, but with the six class alignment, travel is not really an argument for our district. I do like our district and don't really want to change districts, but for the sake of argument, I will use the districts that I am more familiar with.

 

Raceland is in D1-5 with Fairview, who is five miles away; LCA which is three hours away' Nicholas Co around three hours away; and Paris three hours away.

 

Any number of schools in D1-7 or D1-8 could be changed to each others district to make all three of these districts five team districts, instead of one four team district and two six team districts.

 

And this is not a stretch. Raceland used to play in a district with Paintsville, Allen Central, Hazard, and Wheelright.

 

This is just three districts in one class, I am sure there are other examples that I am not as familiar with.

 

I, honestly, do not think that travel expense is as big of an argument as some people make it to be. There are expenses associated with have athletic teams, and a school excepts those responsibilities when they agree to have said programs. Look at how many baseball teams drove to Florida for baseball games, or how many basketball programs traveled all over the state for holiday tournaments. Raceland is traveling three hours, apiece, for three district games, as well as three of their opponents traveling three hours to play Raceland.

 

I am not upset with the distance of travel, I just don't there should be six team districts when there are several four team districts. There should be five team districts first, and then if a six team district has to happen, then so be it.

 

CLASS 1A

District-1-5- Berea, Fairview, Lexington Christian, Nicholas County, Paris, Raceland

District-1-7- Harlan, Hazard, Jenkins, Pineville

District-1-8- Allen Central, Betsy Layne, Paintsville, Phelps, Pikeville, South Floyd

 

I am hearing a lot of talk around this end of the state that if fuel keeps going up that it will have a very negative impact on schools and sports teams. You have to remember that the State keeps mandating schools to do more and more with the same or less money. Add that to the cost of fuel and the tax base for most of Eastern Ky and you have real problems

I would normally agree with you, but with the six class alignment, travel is not really an argument for our district. I do like our district and don't really want to change districts, but for the sake of argument, I will use the districts that I am more familiar with.

 

Raceland is in D1-5 with Fairview, who is five miles away; LCA which is three hours away' Nicholas Co around three hours away; and Paris three hours away.

 

Any number of schools in D1-7 or D1-8 could be changed to each others district to make all three of these districts five team districts, instead of one four team district and two six team districts.

 

And this is not a stretch. Raceland used to play in a district with Paintsville, Allen Central, Hazard, and Wheelright.

 

This is just three districts in one class, I am sure there are other examples that I am not as familiar with.

 

I, honestly, do not think that travel expense is as big of an argument as some people make it to be. There are expenses associated with have athletic teams, and a school excepts those responsibilities when they agree to have said programs. Look at how many baseball teams drove to Florida for baseball games, or how many basketball programs traveled all over the state for holiday tournaments. Raceland is traveling three hours, apiece, for three district games, as well as three of their opponents traveling three hours to play Raceland.

 

I am not upset with the distance of travel, I just don't there should be six team districts when there are several four team districts. There should be five team districts first, and then if a six team district has to happen, then so be it.

 

CLASS 1A

District-1-5- Berea, Fairview, Lexington Christian, Nicholas County, Paris, Raceland

District-1-7- Harlan, Hazard, Jenkins, Pineville

District-1-8- Allen Central, Betsy Layne, Paintsville, Phelps, Pikeville, South Floyd

 

Remember that the State is mandating schools to do more and more with the same or less money from the Budget. I am hearing around southeast ky that because of this and rising fuel cost that if the price keeps going up it will have a very negative effect on sports teams. I hope not but its something to think about.

You just told me I wasn't a Super because I wasn't thinking about travel expense and you justified your argument with the money/distance. The money and distance is the same if I have 6a numbers playing down for travel and expense as it would be for 3a and 4a moving up for travel and expense.

 

This is my point as to why I feel everyone should go by numbers and leave it alone.

 

The money is an issue and unless there is some compelling reason to not factor the transportation cost into the KHSAA decisions, it should be factored in. Allowing a school with say 1400 students to play down in A ball, with the resulting unfair advantage, would be a compelling reason to not factor transportation costs into the equation. Allowing a school to play up and voluntarily incur the size disadvantage is something completely different. If you can't comprehend the difference I'm not sure that anything I will post will ever make you understand it. Bottom line: any school that can't beat a school significantly smaller than it, has bigger problems to worry about than the small school getting to play up. Highlands 3 year average for boys is 417. Barren County the largest 5A school has 674 (over 250 more boys to find football players from). If Barren County cannot use that advantage to beat Highlands, the issue is not with Highlands. To argue to the contrary would be to argue that size does not matter and if that's the case, then Beechwood should be able to beat Trinity and X on a regular basis and no disrespect to the Tigers, but that's not going to happen. Heck, to argue that point, we should have one class for everyone in football. If the KHSAA did that, this site would be humming with criticism of the KHSAA saying size matters. Either it does matter (in which a bigger school should have no problem with a smaller school playing up) or it doesn't matter and we should have one class. Which of the two do you support?

 

To BG's credit, their coach didn't make a single whining comment about Highlands should have been in 3A. Rather he simply said they got beat by a better team and BG will have to get better. I love that attitude as it is a winner's attitude.

I must have made a pretty good argument if I didn't get a 6 paragraph response.

 

:banana:

 

Or your argument was so lame, I could dispose of it with just a few words.

I team playing down is not even comprehendable. If teams were allowed to play down, you would have 60 5A schools and two 6A schools. And like wise you would have a lot of 1A schools and not many 2A schools.

 

Simply, if you want to voluntarily play against bigger schools, fine, but you can not let teams play down a class. Theoreticly you would have one class football, because everyone would want to be in 1A.

I team playing down is not even comprehendable. If teams were allowed to play down, you would have 60 5A schools and two 6A schools. And like wise you would have a lot of 1A schools and not many 2A schools.

 

Simply, if you want to voluntarily play against bigger schools, fine, but you can not let teams play down a class. Theoreticly you would have one class football, because everyone would want to be in 1A.

 

Thank you Sir.

The money is an issue and unless there is some compelling reason to not factor the transportation cost into the KHSAA decisions, it should be factored in. Allowing a school with say 1400 students to play down in A ball, with the resulting unfair advantage, would be a compelling reason to not factor transportation costs into the equation. Allowing a school to play up and voluntarily incur the size disadvantage is something completely different. If you can't comprehend the difference I'm not sure that anything I will post will ever make you understand it. Bottom line: any school that can't beat a school significantly smaller than it, has bigger problems to worry about than the small school getting to play up. Highlands 3 year average for boys is 417. Barren County the largest 5A school has 674 (over 250 more boys to find football players from). If Barren County cannot use that advantage to beat Highlands, the issue is not with Highlands. To argue to the contrary would be to argue that size does not matter and if that's the case, then Beechwood should be able to beat Trinity and X on a regular basis and no disrespect to the Tigers, but that's not going to happen. Heck, to argue that point, we should have one class for everyone in football. If the KHSAA did that, this site would be humming with criticism of the KHSAA saying size matters. Either it does matter (in which a bigger school should have no problem with a smaller school playing up) or it doesn't matter and we should have one class. Which of the two do you support?

 

To BG's credit, their coach didn't make a single whining comment about Highlands should have been in 3A. Rather he simply said they got beat by a better team and BG will have to get better. I love that attitude as it is a winner's attitude.

 

I think you are missing my point.

Just from looking at it, I would say you hit the nail on the head. Remember that, at least for our school, 2008 is the second year of a contract cycle and working people into a schedule seemed better in 6A with the other Boone County schools. Likely in the future, I can see B (Boone), C (Conner), R (Ryle) and Cooper all being in the second largest group (not the top group). That would make it very interesting.

 

This can only mean one of two things. Either there will be more than six classes in the future or 6A will be a super class. I hope 6A migrates to a 16 team super class because it is the best solution to the perceived problems with football.

My complaint is that the teams that request to move get to choose their district and others do not. I don't believe that any school would choose to be put in say Trinity,X or Highlands district even if they had to travel 2 hours for district games if they stayed put. So if you really think teams didn't consider the competition factor when deciding to move I would think you may not be correct. I just think going to the highest level within travel distance would show the real reason the school wants to move up is for cost reasons.

 

I agree no one should be allowed to move down, that is just crazy IMO.

This can only mean one of two things. Either there will be more than six classes in the future or 6A will be a super class. I hope 6A migrates to a 16 team super class because it is the best solution to the perceived problems with football.

 

 

Totally agree (not about more classes, that would be absurb, but about the large school division) as you and I talked before when I threw you the idea. The top 16 in one class, regardless of geography, then divide the rest of the state into 5 groups will allow for probably, the best of all worlds. Those 16 would all be in, no matter what, and could have different pairings in different years to make sure there is some variety. And those other 5 groups don't have to be perfectly the same number of teams. It is my hope that there will be some very hard looks over the next few months, (and I would guess after they get the 2008-2009 data so Cooper and Harlan County aren't excuses and unknowns), at a different way of dividing those other groups. What is so appalling from what I have heard, is a bunch of large school coaches signing a letter asking for bracketing to be rigged to where, no matter the geography, the two large parochial schools always play early, with most of the letter signers being from schools with 750 to 1100 boys. I doubt they get any sympathy at all from the rest of the five classes.

 

To be honest Guru, whether coaches like it or not, I cannot help but think that some old fashioned common sense will have to be involved with the next real realignment they do as the gas prices are probably here to stay, and we have to get out of the mode that every district needs the same number of teams, even if one has to travel, etc. And that includes playoff bracketing. That's just old school thinking that will have to go by the wayside if the total best interests of the kids and schools are at heart.

 

I read last week that one of the states in the north has disregarded school size and formed local school conferences (that's the way it used to be done), just so travel could be contained. I am sure the coaches will feel one way about the issue, the fans another, and the superintendents who have to pay the bills will have a third opinion.

 

Should be a great debate.