All Santana said was the he would block any trade they tried to make during the season, not really sure how you see that as pressuring.

That was pressuring the Twins to make a deal during the offseason. Santana had some leverage there to force the Twins to make a deal then or not at all.

Gomez played in 58 major league games in 2007. He never had extended success in the Minors. If he was ready to take over centerfield for the Twins, Dickerson is just as ready to take over center for the Reds next season. (I don't know if you have argued that he's not, but plenty on here have)

The big difference between Gomez and Dickerson is their age. Gomez is much younger and much better defensively. Dickerson is a longtime minor leaguer that happened to have a hot month or two upon his promotion.

While I agree with you, the Rockies have been fairly open about moving Garrett Atkins & Matt Holliday.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. More so on Atkins because they still have Helton under contract and Stewart ready to step in at third base.

 

Holliday is a much different situation. And didn't the Rockies say at the trading deadline that they were holding on to Holliday? He won't come cheap.

That was pressuring the Twins to make a deal during the offseason. Santana had some leverage there to force the Twins to make a deal then or not at all.

The big difference between Gomez and Dickerson is their age. Gomez is much younger and much better defensively. Dickerson is a longtime minor leaguer that happened to have a hot month or two upon his promotion.

 

You make to big a deal about ages. Yes, it's important, but its not everything. I'm willing to bet Dickerson has a better year next season than Gomez did this season.

You make to big a deal about ages. Yes, it's important, but its not everything. I'm willing to bet Dickerson has a better year next season than Gomez did this season.

Age is a big deal when it comes to evaluating a player and his future. The Twins had the long-term in mind when they dealt for Gomez, who was only 22 at the time of the trade.

 

Dickerson is nearly four years older. There is a reason that Gomez makes the majors at age 21 and Dickerson doesn't make it until age 26 ... Gomez is more talented and a better prospect.

Age is a big deal when it comes to evaluating a player and his future. The Twins had the long-term in mind when they dealt for Gomez, who was only 22 at the time of the trade.

 

Dickerson is nearly four years older. There is a reason that Gomez makes the majors at age 21 and Dickerson doesn't make it until age 26 ... Gomez is more talented and a better prospect.

 

And Gomez could very well hit .250 the rest of his career. As could Dickerson. Those things don't mean a thing until you get to the show and so far Dickerson has out performed Gomez in the Major Leagues. And don't get started on him getting hot or lucky or whatever you want to call it. When you're that type of player, you can have a good game or a good week by accident, but not a good month.

And Gomez could very well hit .250 the rest of his career. As could Dickerson. Those things don't mean a thing until you get to the show and so far Dickerson has out performed Gomez in the Major Leagues.

OK, let's compare Gomez and Dickerson.

 

The last time the two players spent a significant amount of time on the same level was 2006, when both were playing in Double-A:

 

Gomez's numbers at age 20 ... .281-7-48 with 41 stolen bases and a .773 OPS

 

Dickerson's numbers at age 24 ... .242-12-48 with 21 stolen bases and a .779 OPS

 

Gomez put together a similar performance at an age four years younger than Dickerson ... that is significant, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

And don't get started on him getting hot or lucky or whatever you want to call it. When you're that type of player, you can have a good game or a good week by accident, but not a good month.

Really? Ever heard of Bob "Hurricane" Hazle? Jeff Stone?

 

Look up Hazle's stretch drive in 1957 ... .403-7-27 in 41 games and the same kind of extra-base binge that Dickerson had late in the year. Hazle hit .211 the next year and never made it back to the majors.

 

Stone was a breathtaking athlete and a speedster that grew up a little over an hour from where I did. He came up with the Phillies in 1984 and hit .362 with 27 stolen bases in just 51 games. He hit a whopping .254 in the rest of his career and never became an everyday player.

 

Those are just two examples off the top of my head.

 

All kinds of mediocre players can have a great month every now and then, just as great players can have horrible stretches.

And Gomez could very well hit .250 the rest of his career. As could Dickerson. Those things don't mean a thing until you get to the show and so far Dickerson has out performed Gomez in the Major Leagues. And don't get started on him getting hot or lucky or whatever you want to call it. When you're that type of player, you can have a good game or a good week by accident, but not a good month.

 

 

It can easily happen and be an abberation. Especially when you consider that he was playing for a non-contending team late in the year and you're only talking about 122 plate appearances. It should be red flag also that he struck out 35 times in only 102 at bats. He's much more likely to develop into Ryan Freel or Chris Stynes than an everyday Major League Starter.

 

Ever heard of Bob "Hurricane" Hazle? Jeff Stone?

 

Look up Hazle's stretch drive in 1957 ... .403-7-27 in 41 games and the same kind of extra-base binge that Dickerson had late in the year. Hazle hit .211 the next year and never made it back to the majors.

 

Stone was a breathtaking athlete and a speedster that grew up a little over an hour from where I did. He came up with the Phillies in 1984 and hit .362 with 27 stolen bases in just 51 games. He hit a whopping .254 in the rest of his career and never became an everyday player.

 

Those are just two examples off the top of my head.

 

All kinds of mediocre players can have a great month every now and then, just as great players can have horrible stretches.

 

:thumb: Exactly here's another great example. Sam Horn, came up in late July 1987 with the Red Sox and was going to be the next great slugger for the Sox. He hit .278 in 158 at bats with 44 hits, 14 Homeruns and 34 RBIs and quickly became a folk hero. However, the Sox were having a bad year following their World Series meltdown and he did it with relatively no pressure on him. The rest of his career? .234 in 882 at bats with 206 hits, 48 Homeruns and 145 RBIs. Dickerson and Hanigan are much more likely to be bench players than everyday players. It is very rare that a player stays in the minors as long as these two and ends up having a very long career as a starter in the majors.

OK, let's compare Gomez and Dickerson.

 

The last time the two players spent a significant amount of time on the same level was 2006, when both were playing in Double-A:

 

Gomez's numbers at age 20 ... .281-7-48 with 41 stolen bases and a .773 OPS

 

Dickerson's numbers at age 24 ... .242-12-48 with 21 stolen bases and a .779 OPS

 

Gomez put together a similar performance at an age four years younger than Dickerson ... that is significant, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Really? Ever heard of Bob "Hurricane" Hazle? Jeff Stone?

 

Look up Hazle's stretch drive in 1957 ... .403-7-27 in 41 games and the same kind of extra-base binge that Dickerson had late in the year. Hazle hit .211 the next year and never made it back to the majors.

 

Stone was a breathtaking athlete and a speedster that grew up a little over an hour from where I did. He came up with the Phillies in 1984 and hit .362 with 27 stolen bases in just 51 games. He hit a whopping .254 in the rest of his career and never became an everyday player.

 

Those are just two examples off the top of my head.

 

All kinds of mediocre players can have a great month every now and then, just as great players can have horrible stretches.

 

And there are guys who were in the minors for a while, then something clicked and they stuck with teams in the majors for a while. There's two sides for everything, we always are on different sides, simple as that. We have different viewpoints. You have done nothing to show me that the Rockies wouldn't take unproven prospects for Holliday, just like the Mets did for Santana. Right now the Reds could offer just as good of a package for Holliday than the Mets did to acquire Santana

I'd be shocked if the Reds traded Harang.

 

Sure, people are down on him because of his record this past year, but if the Reds want to make a run at anything, they have to have Harang.

 

It's amazing to me that, for so long, people have complained about the lack of pitching. Then, when we do finally get some quality pitchers here, the Reds need to trade them for some bigtime bats?

 

Cincinnati, as a sports town, never ceases to amaze me.

I'd be shocked if the Reds traded Harang.

 

Sure, people are down on him because of his record this past year, but if the Reds want to make a run at anything, they have to have Harang.

 

It's amazing to me that, for so long, people have complained about the lack of pitching. Then, when we do finally get some quality pitchers here, the Reds need to trade them for some bigtime bats?

 

Cincinnati, as a sports town, never ceases to amaze me.

 

I think Harang will return to form, but Cincinnati needs a bigtime right handed bat in the lineup. This years Free Agent class isn't gonna cut it.

I think Harang will return to form, but Cincinnati needs a bigtime right handed bat in the lineup. This years Free Agent class isn't gonna cut it.

 

 

Harang's trade value isn't at an all-time high.

 

We need him in the rotation if we're going to compete.

 

Pitching wins baseball games. For far too long Cincinnati has had the lineup to compete, but not the pitching staff. For once, it seems we may have the pitching staff to compete. Now people want to dismantle it?

 

It just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe Micah Owings is that bigtime right handed bat.

Harang's trade value isn't at an all-time high.

 

We need him in the rotation if we're going to compete.

 

Pitching wins baseball games. For far too long Cincinnati has had the lineup to compete, but not the pitching staff. For once, it seems we may have the pitching staff to compete. Now people want to dismantle it?

 

It just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe Micah Owings is that bigtime right handed bat.

 

Cincinnat had the lineup to hit homeruns, not compete. Big difference. Dunn didn't get clutch hits, neither did Griffey. Encarnacion hasn't showed that ability yet. They need a run producer.

You have done nothing to show me that the Rockies wouldn't take unproven prospects for Holliday, just like the Mets did for Santana.

As I've stated, the situations are different. Santana was pressuring the Twins to make a deal then or never. If Holliday takes a similar stance, then we'll talk ...

Right now the Reds could offer just as good of a package for Holliday than the Mets did to acquire Santana

What kind of package? Give me a list that could realistically convince the Rockies to trade Holliday.

As I've stated, the situations are different. Santana was pressuring the Twins to make a deal then or never. If Holliday takes a similar stance, then we'll talk ...

What kind of package? Give me a list that could realistically convince the Rockies to trade Holliday.

 

 

I think a package of Homer Bailey, Ramon Ramirez, Drew Stubbs and Todd Frazier would peak the Rockies interest.

I think a package of Homer Bailey, Ramon Ramirez, Drew Stubbs and Todd Frazier would peak the Rockies interest.

Maybe, and maybe not ... Stubbs had a decent year at age 23 in the Florida State League, which says he probably isn't a future star. And he's probably still a year or two away. Frazier will probably end up at second base or third base. Ramirez is intriguing.

 

Homer? As much as the Reds fans trash him, and as bad as he's been, how much value does he really have on the market right now?