Teachers are NOT overpaid. The idea is just plain ludicrous when you consider what they do and their education requirements.

 

Are they underpaid?

I am not complaining, I am trying to make those that have NO IDEA of what teaching is understand a little better. Most people that have no experience with teaching (Parents, spouses, ETC) see the summers off and holiday's off and assume that teachers have it easy. And you know what happens when you assume.............

 

Terming an aspect of your position as ridiculous seems to be complaining. I understand the in and outs of the teaching profession. There are aspects of your profession that do not exist in my profession. There are also aspects in my position that your profession doesn't have. Good and bad in both. If you want the public to fully understand what teaching is, then tell it all. All we are hearing are the negatives. When someone else mentions what may be a positive, they are disparaged as not knowing what they are talking about.

Then you would agree with me that teachers should not compare themselves with other jobs and professions that they have not themselves experienced?

 

That was not what I was saying. I was saying that we can try and describe what a teacher does to those that think we put in 7 hour days and only work 10 months a year, but to really appreciate how much that is inaccurate, you have to be in that position.

 

Same with your occupation. You can tell me what it is like to have a person's life in your hand as a defense or prosecuting attorney, but to truly appreciate the mental pressure that would go with that, I would need to be in that position.

Terming an aspect of your position as ridiculous ( correct spelling for our teacher friends ) seems to be complaining. I understand the in and outs of the teaching profession. There are aspects of your profession that do not exist in my profession. There are also aspects in my position that your profession doesn't have. Good and bad in both. If you want the public to fully understand what teaching is, then tell it all. All we are hearing are the negatives. When someone else mentions what may be a positive, they are disparaged as not knowing what they are talking about.

 

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the joy when a kid gets it?

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the pride we get when a kid failing or a kid in trouble makes that determination they want to turn their life around and thanks us for part of it?

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the pride they have for the classes when they succeed and leave them to move onto the next grade?

 

If you truly haven't, the reason is because teachers for the most part, are not self-promoters. We will talk about how it was the kid who made the changes and the kid who deserves all the credit and the kid who is the one. Downplaying any role we had in their transformation and putting all the praise and glory on them.

 

We are not good at patting our own backs because it does not come natural. We deflect attention to the kids. I don't recall a single state championship coach this year saying the team won because they were the best coach in the state. But rather that they had the best bunch of kids in the state.

 

What positive about education has a teacher disparaged?

Are they underpaid?

Yes, along with many so many others who make our lifes easier and better. Social workers, firefighters and police, waste collection workers, mailmen, nurse aides, on and on. We are a country of narcisists with screwed up priorities, myself included. Our motto has become "I am, therefore I deserve." We just expect our needs to met without being bothered. But should hard, hard times ever come to this country, those are the people I want to be surrounded by, not the attorneys, accountants, CEO's and celebrities.

That was not what I was saying. I was saying that we can try and describe what a teacher does to those that think we put in 7 hour days and only work 10 months a year, but to really appreciate how much that is inaccurate, you have to be in that position.

 

Same with your occupation. You can tell me what it is like to have a person's life in your hand as a defense or prosecuting attorney, but to truly appreciate the mental pressure that would go with that, I would need to be in that position.

 

That is true, but I honestly don't recall anyone on here that has claimed that teachers only work seven hour days, only work 10 months per year, or don't bring work home. What I DO remember from the posts was other posters saying that what teachers were describing as their workload is not unusual, lots of us do that, too. And therefore, I find it hard for teachers to try and extrapolate their pay situation by comparing themselves to all these other professions, which many of the teaching brethren on here were doing.

That is true, but I honestly don't recall anyone on here that has claimed that teachers only work seven hour days, only work 10 months per year, or don't bring work home. What I DO remember from the posts was other posters saying that what teachers were describing as their workload is not unusual, lots of us do that, too. And therefore, I find it hard for teachers to try and extrapolate their pay situation by comparing themselves to all these other professions, which many of the teaching brethren on here were doing.

 

And what I sense from you is that teachers are over-rated and should quite fighting for more compensation. Who do you think taught you the word EXTRAPOLATE. You certainly didn't learn that one on "Seaseme Street". But anyway, I am done beating this dead horse. Teachers aren't payed what their worth, period.

That is true, but I honestly don't recall anyone on here that has claimed that teachers only work seven hour days, only work 10 months per year, or don't bring work home. What I DO remember from the posts was other posters saying that what teachers were describing as their workload is not unusual, lots of us do that, too. And therefore, I find it hard for teachers to try and extrapolate their pay situation by comparing themselves to all these other professions, which many of the teaching brethren on here were doing.

 

I have yet to post till now, no matter what is said no matter what idea comes up, plain in simple, we will just come to the conclusion that you do not understand us, and we do not understand you, even though you would not be able to read, write as articulate as you do without the help of one of us, how much are those abilities worth to you, to balance a check book, to enjoy a good novel, to reason... how much is this worth to you or to anyone, put a price on it and then pay a teacher how much you think that is worth!

Yes, along with many so many others who make our lifes easier and better. Social workers, firefighters and police, waste collection workers, mailmen, nurse aides, on and on. We are a country of narcisists with screwed up priorities, myself included. Our motto has become "I am, therefore I deserve." We just expect our needs to met without being bothered. But should hard, hard times ever come to this country, those are the people I want to be surrounded by, not the attorneys, accountants, CEO's and celebrities.

 

That's an interesting philosophy. Rather than the market (which, as you contend, is driven by "narcisists with crewed up priorities") driving the valuation of certain work, you posit that our valuation of work should be motivated by that which "makes our lives easier and better."

 

So, given that, dcotors should be the highest paid? The legislators who draft our laws to protect us a citizenry? The engineers and scientists who spend every waking hour making things stronger, faster, better performing? What is it out there that makes our lives easier and better? I think we value the answer to that the way we value it right now.

And what I sense from you is that teachers are over-rated and should quite fighting for more compensation. Who do you think taught you the word EXTRAPOLATE. You certainly didn't learn that one on "Seaseme Street". But anyway, I am done beating this dead horse. Teachers aren't payed what their worth, period.

 

I think that's what most on here are arguing in regard to both sides of the debate. Many teachers work many hours in the summer and weekends and after school and are not compensated. While many other teachers show up at 8 and hit the door at 3:15 every day, and never do any work outside of that time frame. These teachers merit different pay, and neither are paid what they are worth.

1. Show me a "kid folding clothes" making $25,000 per year, with tax exemptions, a retirement savings plan, and generous health care coverage.

 

My question asked, literally, if your argument is that we should be comparing teachers’ salaries to that of kids folding clothes to determine if they are being fairly compensated. I will take your post as a resounding affirmation of that argument.

 

2. The point of woodsrider's post, and my concurrence, is that educator's argue their belief that they should be paid commensurate with high level executives in the private sector. But you have to compare apples to apples. In a typical corporate industry, a high level executive might be akin to a superintendent, a low level executive might be akin to a principal, a middle management position might be akin to an experienced teacher, and an entry-level management position might be akin to a newly certified teacher or with a just a few years experience. If you compare the salary ranges equally, I think you will find that the private sector is not earning all that much more than the teaching indsutry.

 

I find it much more difficult to compare the private sector pay to public employee pay. We are comparing the pay scales of two unrelated jobs based on a hastily created hierarchy. I find it to be far more nuanced than that.

 

You can't just get on here and say, "hey, I've got a Master's, and therefore should be paid $80,000 per year. Plus, what I do is more important because there would be no executives without me." It doesn't work that way in the private sector, and it doesn't work that way with teachers.

 

I will ask again, what teachers on this board are saying this? If I’m not mistaken, we are in a thread that has turned into a full on assault of teachers and their salaries, but the argument somehow revolves around the false premise that teachers are completely and utterly indignant about their pay and are filling this message board with their ire. I’m not seeing it.

 

In Kentucky, we spend an appalling 69% of total state budget towards education and related expenses. The vast majority of that is toward an ever-increasing and bloated teacher entitlement system designed to make sure that they are taken care of for the remainder of their lives. It is a public sector luxury that the private sector rarely enjoys. Teachers compare wages - when they should be comparing jobs. If you are going to factor in everything, you need to factor in the good parts of the job, too, and not just look at whether your paycheck is equal.

 

The problems in the above posts are also a symptom of the ridiculous leadership and logic regarding education in this state. A lot needs to be done to rectify the massive problems, but undervaluing teacher pay isn’t one of them.

I think that's what most on here are arguing in regard to both sides of the debate. Many teachers work many hours in the summer and weekends and after school and are not compensated. While many other teachers show up at 8 and hit the door at 3:15 every day, and never do any work outside of that time frame. These teachers merit different pay, and neither are paid what they are worth.

 

PERIOD.....

And what I sense from you is that teachers are over-rated and should quite fighting for more compensation. Who do you think taught you the word EXTRAPOLATE. You certainly didn't learn that one on "Seaseme Street". But anyway, I am done beating this dead horse. Teachers aren't payed what their worth, period.

 

Actually if you will review my very first post in this thread, you will see that it was I who stated that I did not think the teachers were overpaid.

 

This is the type of outright defensiveness that has become very common in the education profession anytime someone has the unmitigated temerity to cut the education budget, or to suggest that the concept of tenure in public school education offends their philosophy.

 

I learned the word "extrapolate" from studying baseball cards and reading about projected statistics. I learned the phrase "unmitigated temerity" from reading Nero Wolfe. Teachers did help me out a lot in learning to read, though. I did watch Sesame Street and thought, from an early age, that something was funny about Bert and Ernie.

Actually if you will review my very first post in this thread, you will see that it was I who stated that I did not think the teachers were overpaid.

 

This is the type of outright defensiveness that has become very common in the education profession anytime someone has the unmitigated temerity to cut the education budget, or to suggest that the concept of tenure in public school education offends their philosophy.

 

I learned the word "extrapolate" from studying baseball cards and reading about projected statistics. I learned the phrase "unmitigated temerity" from reading Nero Wolfe. Teachers did help me out a lot in learning to read, though. I did watch Sesame Street and thought, from an early age, that something was funny about Bert and Ernie.

 

I like the free market idea and I am a teacher I want all professionals to tell me how much they are worth and teacher should get "a cut" of what they say, because it was because of a teacher that all skills were either introduced or polished. Kinda like an agent!

My question asked, literally, if your argument is that we should be comparing teachers’ salaries to that of kids folding clothes to determine if they are being fairly compensated. I will take your post as a resounding affirmation of that argument.

 

 

 

I find it much more difficult to compare the private sector pay to public employee pay. We are comparing the pay scales of two unrelated jobs based on a hastily created hierarchy. I find it to be far more nuanced than that.

 

 

 

I will ask again, what teachers on this board are saying this? If I’m not mistaken, we are in a thread that has turned into a full on assault of teachers and their salaries, but the argument somehow revolves around the false premise that teachers are completely and utterly indignant about their pay and are filling this message board with their ire. I’m not seeing it.

 

 

 

The problems in the above posts are also a symptom of the ridiculous leadership and logic regarding education in this state. A lot needs to be done to rectify the massive problems, but undervaluing teacher pay isn’t one of them.

 

Please direct me to the posts in the thread that you feel are a "full on assault of teachers and their salaries." By my count, there are at least 6 teachers actively posting in the thread. There are only 4, and only 2 in recent parts, that have taken the position that teachers are not necessarily underpaid, myself included. And I cannot even find one sentence that is remotely offensive, unless you consider the mere taking of that position offensive.