That's an interesting philosophy. Rather than the market (which, as you contend, is driven by "narcisists with crewed up priorities") driving the valuation of certain work, you posit that our valuation of work should be motivated by that which "makes our lives easier and better."

 

So, given that, dcotors should be the highest paid? The legislators who draft our laws to protect us a citizenry? The engineers and scientists who spend every waking hour making things stronger, faster, better performing? What is it out there that makes our lives easier and better? I think we value the answer to that the way we value it right now.

 

I think the real problem in our society is, although we would never admit it, that our society doesn't put a high enough demand on education. If we did, there would be a greater price paid for educators, which would in turn raise the qualifed amount of people retaining teaching degrees, which would in turn by raising competition, raise quality of education in this country. However, you can only demand so high of standards when you are paying 40,000 a year due to the fact that heavy competion will not occur for a position with that pay rate that requires a college degree. I mean, lets face it, it must take a real simpleton to have $180,000 worth of education, and work for $42,000 a year.

I like the free market idea and I am a teacher I want all professionals to tell me how much they are worth and teacher should get "a cut" of what they say, because it was because of a teacher that all skills were either introduced or polished. Kinda like an agent!

 

The free market pays fair market value. Fair market value is defined as what a willing buyer is willing to pay and a willing seller is willing to sell for. I am with you 100% that teachers should market themselves to the highest bidder. That is happening to some extent in certain areas of education, for instance, math and science teachers are commanding entry level salaries of nearly $60,000 in certain wealtheir districts. Administrators, in particular, can command very high salaries by marketing themselves. So it can be done. The point is, if the education industry would stop placing so many regulatory restrictions upon themselves (and I'm sorry, most of that comes from NEA efforts), you all as individuals would actually be able to market yourselves more freely.

I think the real problem in our society is, although we would never admit it, that our society doesn't put a high enough demand on education. If we did, there would be a greater price paid for educators, which would in turn raise the qualifed amount of people retaining teaching degrees, which would in turn by raising competition, raise quality of education in this country. However, you can only demand so high of standards when you are paying 40,000 a year due to the fact that heavy competion will not occur for a position with that pay rate that requires a college degree. I mean, lets face it, it must take a real simpleton to have $180,000 worth of education, and work for $42,000 a year.

 

For a teacher, that's about $30,000 a year for education, that seems pretty high. Maybe if all teachers were being educated at Centre.

 

Society may not place a high enough value on certain areas of education. I think we value college education very highly, and tha is reflected in what we pay for it. You will notice that not a whole lot of college professors are claiming that they are paid too poorly. We just don't value a high school education as much.

:sleep: And what market forces set teacher salary?

 

Well, since there are a bunch of people on here saying that teachers aren't paid for all of that time off, I think that maybe they should work a whole lot more.

I hope you realize that teachers/administrators also have to maintain 24 to 48hours of continuing education yearly that must also be maintained for as long as they work.

 

Who cares? Thousands of professions require continuing education....it's a week for most people...

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the joy when a kid gets it?

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the pride we get when a kid failing or a kid in trouble makes that determination they want to turn their life around and thanks us for part of it?

You have really never heard a teacher talk about the pride they have for the classes when they succeed and leave them to move onto the next grade?

 

If you truly haven't, the reason is because teachers for the most part, are not self-promoters. We will talk about how it was the kid who made the changes and the kid who deserves all the credit and the kid who is the one. Downplaying any role we had in their transformation and putting all the praise and glory on them.

 

We are not good at patting our own backs because it does not come natural. We deflect attention to the kids. I don't recall a single state championship coach this year saying the team won because they were the best coach in the state. But rather that they had the best bunch of kids in the state.

 

What positive about education has a teacher disparaged?

 

Actually, besides this post, I haven't heard anything positive. Thank you for shedding light on the true positive in your profession.

Please direct me to the posts in the thread that you feel are a "full on assault of teachers and their salaries." By my count, there are at least 6 teachers actively posting in the thread. There are only 4, and only 2 in recent parts, that have taken the position that teachers are not necessarily underpaid, myself included. And I cannot even find one sentence that is remotely offensive, unless you consider the mere taking of that position offensive.

 

Several posters here have vehemently argued that teachers are not earning all that they make. I too would be peeved if someone told me that I wasn't worth the check I was being handed.

 

And I would also like you to direct me to the posts in this thread that have said "hey, I've got a Master's, and therefore should be paid $80,000 per year. Plus, what I do is more important because there would be no executives without me."

I think that's what most on here are arguing in regard to both sides of the debate. Many teachers work many hours in the summer and weekends and after school and are not compensated. While many other teachers show up at 8 and hit the door at 3:15 every day, and never do any work outside of that time frame. These teachers merit different pay, and neither are paid what they are worth.

 

That is hard to say because when I was a newer teacher, I had to work and put in many more hours to get things ready. Now with the routine and knowing the ins and outs, I can do the same job in a lot more time because I am a lot more efficient.

 

In addition, when I was younger, teaching on how to write a check was something I needed to learn to do. After 17 years of teaching that, I am not going to spend as much time preparing for it as I did 17 years ago.

 

Does that mean I am doing a worse job because I am more efficient now?

 

A teacher has been teaching the keys on a keyboard in computers. They haven't changed. They are still all in the same place. Not going to be a lot of prep time for that and since they have been teaching it for 20some years, they have a pretty good handle on it.

 

But a teacher is teaching a science experiment unit. And it might take more time to prepare.

 

Should the science teacher get paid more?

Who cares? Thousands of professions require continuing education....it's a week for most people...

 

30 credit hours in college is a week??????

 

Tell me about this school and I can have my Rank I by next week.

That is hard to say because when I was a newer teacher, I had to work and put in many more hours to get things ready. Now with the routine and knowing the ins and outs, I can do the same job in a lot more time because I am a lot more efficient.

 

In addition, when I was younger, teaching on how to write a check was something I needed to learn to do. After 17 years of teaching that, I am not going to spend as much time preparing for it as I did 17 years ago.

 

Does that mean I am doing a worse job because I am more efficient now?

 

A teacher has been teaching the keys on a keyboard in computers. They haven't changed. They are still all in the same place. Not going to be a lot of prep time for that and since they have been teaching it for 20some years, they have a pretty good handle on it.

 

But a teacher is teaching a science experiment unit. And it might take more time to prepare.

 

Should the science teacher get paid more?

 

Than a typing teacher?

Than a typing teacher?

 

Hearsay, you are showing your age. Typing teachers have not been around since the 80's.

Hearsay, you are showing your age. Typing teachers have not been around since the 80's.

 

That's a shame. I loved those old electric typewriters.

 

A science teacher should be paid more than a computer word processing teacher. Now, a computer programming teacher is different. I DON'T think that there should be equality of salary based merely upon years of epxerience/service and education levels. I believe it should be based more upon supply/demand and level of professional expertise.

On the comment on continuing education.

 

I taught Computers for awhile. The whole Microsoft Office programs and the like.

Does anyone want to guess how much of that I learned in my college education in the 80's????? Anyone? Anyone?

 

That is correct. ZILCH.

 

ON MY TIME WITH NO COMPENSATION, I had to learn about Powerpoint, Word, Excel, Access. I had to learn the ins and outs of all these programs like a business person uses them so that I could teach it.

 

Now before someone says this is complaining, it is not. I chose to teach that because I knew how much these kids needed to learn this stuff for the real world. Even though what I was teaching them would be outdated in 5 years or less, it would give them a foundation to build on.

 

Rather, it is a statement of fact of what we do.

 

Unfortunately, my education of Accounting in the written journals, shorthand and typing from college days is not much use for me.

That's a shame. I loved those old electric typewriters.

 

A science teacher should be paid more than a computer word processing teacher. Now, a computer programming teacher is different. I DON'T think that there should be equality of salary based merely upon years of epxerience/service and education levels. I believe it should be based more upon supply/demand and level of professional expertise.

 

So, do you think more of the students in KY will be involved in a career in science, computer programming or working with computers in a word processing, spreadsheet form.

 

Cause I would be willing to believe that MORE students will be using word processing, spreadsheets and data entry the rest of their life than looking at something in a microscope or writing a computer program.

 

Which do you use more? BTW, which are you using now when you answer my post?

That's a shame. I loved those old electric typewriters.

 

A science teacher should be paid more than a computer word processing teacher. Now, a computer programming teacher is different. I DON'T think that there should be equality of salary based merely upon years of epxerience/service and education levels. I believe it should be based more upon supply/demand and level of professional expertise.

 

Electice....we had the mamual ones...

 

 

On the comment on continuing education.

 

I taught Computers for awhile. The whole Microsoft Office programs and the like.

Does anyone want to guess how much of that I learned in my college education in the 80's????? Anyone? Anyone?

 

That is correct. ZILCH.

 

ON MY TIME WITH NO COMPENSATION, I had to learn about Powerpoint, Word, Excel, Access. I had to learn the ins and outs of all these programs like a business person uses them so that I could teach it.

 

Now before someone says this is complaining, it is not. I chose to teach that because I knew how much these kids needed to learn this stuff for the real world. Even though what I was teaching them would be outdated in 5 years or less, it would give them a foundation to build on.

 

Rather, it is a statement of fact of what we do.

 

Unfortunately, my education of Accounting in the written journals, shorthand and typing from college days is not much use for me.

 

Being a teacher too, I know what your mean. Some people have no clue.