Show me proof that it's false and I'll agree with you.

The burden of proof is on the accuser ...

Just because they stayed doesn't mean they agreed with the sermon.

 

I guess what some are not understanding it was not just A sermon it is the whole theology of the church . . . if you become a member of a church you are essentially condoning what they believe . . . and if it isn't what you believe why stay a member?

I guess what some are not understanding it was not just A sermon it is the whole theology of the church . . . if you become a member of a church you are essentially condoning what they believe . . . and if it isn't what you believe why stay a member?

:thumb: Something else that Rev. Wright's defenders are not grasping is the reaction of the congregation to his racist, hate-America-first tirades. Stunned silence did not fill the building, cheers and applause did. I did not get the impression that Wright said anything that surprised those in attendance.

Newsmax has since made a "clarification" that their witness can't remember the exact dates that he and Obama were at the church together to hear the "hate" sermon. Interestingly Newsmax's clarification is half-hearted at best.

While the "clarification" makes a point of detailing the church's service times that would have purportedly "allowed Sen. Obama to attend the service and still give a speech in Miami," nowhere does Davis or Newsmax state exactly which service Obama is purported to have attended that day, nor is it made clear whether Wright gives a sermon (or the same sermon) at all three services. Newsmax then blamed Obama's office for not returning calls to Davis before publication of his 2007 article. (Newsmax's clarification is cited in the link.)

 

It seems to me that a good journalist would have exact notes on the event and would be able to specifically back up what they're saying. Newsmax, however, doesn't care about that.

It seems to me that a good journalist would have exact notes on the event and would be able to specifically back up what they're saying. Newsmax, however, doesn't care about that.

Have they ever?

"Walking out" comes to mind. I've been to Chicago many times. I know leaders of two (2) Christian ministries in the inner city. Other good, biblical churches do exist.

 

 

This "hypothetical action" would not have been difficult...(unless you are attending a church for "political" reasons)

 

 

So, getting up and walking out would have proven Obama's ability to "stand up to world leaders"? That was the context of the quoted passage.

So, getting up and walking out would have proven Obama's ability to "stand up to world leaders"? That was the context of the quoted passage.

 

Let me be clear what I mean by "walking out". I mean leaving the church. I would probably have stayed through the sermon, then chosen a different church next Sunday.

 

As I stated, there are MANY good, Biblical churches in Chicago. Fellow ministers of mine lead them. This was not the only choice in town....

You're good, I'll give you that. But 20 YEARS???? A leader also has to make a decision eventually. Think Obama has yet?

 

In the early part of his career, Obama worked as an attorney in the community that this church serves. Is it terribly unreasonable to think that he attended this church in part because it allowed him to become more involved in the community and simply discounted the aspects of Wright's sermons with which he disagreed?

 

Here is another question: Future president George W. Bush campaigned at Bob Jones University in 2000, in spite of the school's ban on inter-racial dating. Would one of you who believes Obama's church afiliation calls his presidential suitability into question like to explain to me how Bush's association with Bob Jones is different?

Just 8% Have Favorable Opinion of Pastor Jeremiah Wright

 

Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright’s comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters. In addressing the issue, Obama warned against injecting race into the campaign .

 

Most voters,

56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obam

a. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments.

Here is another question: Future president George W. Bush campaigned at Bob Jones University in 2000, in spite of the school's ban on inter-racial dating. Would one of you who believes Obama's church afiliation calls his presidential suitability into question like to explain to me how Bush's association with Bob Jones is different?

 

Did George Bush "sit under their teaching" for 20 years?

 

When you can verify THAT, you have made a point. Until then, it's just garbage....

Did George Bush "sit under their teaching" for 20 years?

 

When you can verify THAT, you have made a point. Until then, it's just garbage....

 

 

Twenty years makes no difference here. If you want to get into a discussion about the significance of time, in 2000 Bob Jones University had a legacy of racist policies that stretched back all the way to its founding in 1927--it didn't even admit black students until 1971! It was well known at the time that Bob Jones banned interracial dating when Bush campaigned there. He still made a conscious decision to campaign there--does that willfull association make him a racist? Obama chose to continue attending this church after he would have had to hear some objectionable viewpoints. Does that mean he's a racist?

 

Look, I don't think Bush's visit to Bob Jones should have disqualified him in 2000 (indeed, I voted for him in the general election after voting for McCain in the Michigan primary). I also don't think Obama's church attendance should disqualify him now.

 

This issue of whether Obama was in the pews during these sermons is a red herring--we need less of "colonel mustard did it in the conservatory with the lead pipe" and more discussions of the real issues facing this country.

Abraham Lincoln was goaded by a little old lady who told him that he should go in and destroy the south after the civil war because they were an enemy of the nation . . .

 

Lincoln responded - Do I not destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.

 

Jesus associated with sinners. Prostitutes and tax collectors - the religious leaders of his day got an him for associating with them. He also said to love your enemies and bless those who persecute you . . .

 

I think Barack is just being a good Christian.

 

BTW - the political commentary from the pulpit is not theology - it is a commentary on society - there is nothing evident that shows he gave Barack bad "spiritual" advice.

 

I think that America waging war in the Middle East, or anywhere for that matter is bad.

 

I think that America allowing people to be homeless in the richest country in the world is bad.

 

I think that America allowing children to go to bed at night without adequate food and heat in their house is bad.

 

I think our treatment of the immigrant legal and illegal is bad.

 

Many of you rail against our government all the time for collecting too much of your money in taxes.

 

You rail against our government for wanting to take away your guns.

 

You rail against our government for allowing abortions

 

You rail against our government for not deporting illegal aliens.

 

You rail against our government for its equal opportunity policies.

 

blah, blah, blah

 

Rev. Wright was railing against america for its historic treatment of minorities and especially poor minorities. (HIV this is bad) but overall he is railing just like you do. How is his railing against what he sees as some of America's warts any different than yours or mine? It is not. Plain a simple. He commented on the America he knew growing up and some still know now. You can disagree all you want but you can't say that he is wrong because you have not lived his life.

:thumb: I also would like to add just because a person listens to someone making controversial statements doesn't mean he or she agrees with them.

FYI, the Highlands football team has a spring ball practice this Friday at 4pm at Cecil Stadium... come one, come all...

 

Well, second thought, Obama's minister is not welcome to attend, as it is a violation of article 2 of the city's charter, which states that under no circumstances are America-haters allowed to enter Caketown, USA.

FYI, the Highlands football team has a spring ball practice this Friday at 4pm at Cecil Stadium... come one, come all...

 

Well, second thought, Obama's minister is not welcome to attend, as it is a violation of article 2 of the city's charter, which states that under no circumstances are America-haters allowed to enter Caketown, USA.

:laugh::laugh:

Did George Bush "sit under their teaching" for 20 years?

 

When you can verify THAT, you have made a point. Until then, it's just garbage....

 

DITTO!:thumb: