I think you are grossly over-generalizing and labeling the "large majority" as hypocrites. I know you were only venturing a guess . Certainly there are hypocrites in the Christian ranks, and they will have to answer for some of the things you are talking about. However, don't paint us all with the same brush.

 

The Worship service itself is a time to honor God and praise Him. God is the audience and we who are in attendance are not. We are not there to learn to be Christ-like, or learn anything for that matter. We are there to love God and praise Him in our acts of worship.

 

The time to study and learn to be better Christians is on our own time either during Bible study sessions alone or in groups such as Sunday School or Bible Study hour together.

 

The poor and needy are all around us and we do have a Christian obligation to reach out to them. But we are not to forsake our Worship to do so, Christ illustrated that point himself in a way. Your original post indicated to me that you were suggesting we spend ALL our time helping others and that we weren't supposed to go to Worship until all the poor and needy were attended to, which would, of course never be attained.

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: Had to give you 5 thumbs up on that one Watusi. Great Post!

I think you are grossly over-generalizing and labeling the "large majority" as hypocrites. I know you were only venturing a guess . Certainly there are hypocrites in the Christian ranks, and they will have to answer for some of the things you are talking about. However, don't paint us all with the same brush.

 

The Worship service itself is a time to honor God and praise Him. God is the audience and we who are in attendance are not. We are not there to learn to be Christ-like, or learn anything for that matter. We are there to love God and praise Him in our acts of worship.

 

The time to study and learn to be better Christians is on our own time either during Bible study sessions alone or in groups such as Sunday School or Bible Study hour together.

 

The poor and needy are all around us and we do have a Christian obligation to reach out to them. But we are not to forsake our Worship to do so, Christ illustrated that point himself in a way. Your original post indicated to me that you were suggesting we spend ALL our time helping others and that we weren't supposed to go to Worship until all the poor and needy were attended to, which would, of course never be attained.

 

 

I would venture to say that God does not need us sitting around singing songs to him, and if we were not to "learn" anything there then the meeting should be more quaker like and there should not be a sermon.

 

I THINK MOTHER THERESA DID PLENTY OF WORSHIPPING WHEN SHE WAS HELPING THE OPPRESSED.

 

I worship God best when I am helping others and putting their needs in front of mine, as Christ did by being obedient even unto death and putting our needs in front of his.

How can you possibly "believe" that the Bible is without error? There is no "believing" to it - it's fact. The book is literally filled with errors and contradictions.

 

I respectfully disagree.

We can probably have some fun with this one.

 

There is no sin;

God is in everyone and everything;

There is no evil;

Truth is what you make of it.

 

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/007/smith-oprah.htm

 

Sounds a lot like another famous person's doctrine...

 

'Do what thou wilt...so mote it be".....Aleister Crowley.

I would venture to say that God does not need us sitting around singing songs to him, and if we were not to "learn" anything there then the meeting should be more quaker like and there should not be a sermon.

 

I THINK MOTHER THERESA DID PLENTY OF WORSHIPPING WHEN SHE WAS HELPING THE OPPRESSED.

 

I worship God best when I am helping others and putting their needs in front of mine, as Christ did by being obedient even unto death and putting our needs in front of his.

 

Anything we do can be viewed as an act of worship. Hopefully we glorify God in many ways throughout every day of the week including helping others and putting their needs ahead of our own.

 

I don't know what God needs, but I believe with everything in my being that He desires us singing songs of praise to him, along with the other acts of worship on the first day of the week and the scriptures bear this out.

 

Teaching or preaching is certainly one of the acts of worship outlined for the New Testament Church established by Christ. The sermon is a part of that teaching, as a means to edify the Christians in the assembly as well as an opportunity to reach out to the lost in attendance. However, it is not THE designated reason for the coming together on the first day of the week to worship, even though a great many probably view it as central to the assembly.

You know, Jesus preached a message of hoped for the oppressed, he did not come and talk about fear and try to scare anyone into becoming a disciple.

 

His anger and rage was reserved for the religious "right" of his day.

 

To the sinners he talked of hope.

 

Christianity was originally a religion of the minority and the outcast and the poor = now it is not. I think we as a country, by claiming that we are a Christian nation and not taking care of the weakest among us have distorted the religion more than Oprah ever could. We have made it a religion of worldly power and control. Jesus' message flew in the face of political control for the already powerful.

 

He came for the poor and the prisoner and the sick. Modern America has distorted this view by calling us all "sick" because we are sinners, when the fact is we are the powerful and hope to maintain it by electing leaders who are also Christians. Jesus came for the literal poor and literal prisoner and the literal weak and oppressed.

 

American Christians corporately are certainly none of those.

 

Ace, he did both. Your view is right but incomplete. He talked about hell and agony and caring for the poor.

 

Those who ONLY preach on Hell are wrong about it.

Those who ONLY preach on the good things are wrong about it.

 

Jesus was the perfect balance and that is what we should strive for, being the perfect balance of caring for our neighbors like we care about ourselves while warning them of the eternal danger of rejecting Christ.

 

Why can't we be a balance of them rather than going to an extreme of either?

I agree:

 

Every sunday people get up, put on their niecest clothes and shoes ,file into gas drinking suv's, drive past jails, orphanages, and homeless shelters, and go to a building where someone teaches them to be more Christ like.

 

I see no logic in that.

 

Actually, I believe if the Rapture is true, than a lot of folks sitting in the pews on Sunday mornings will be surprised come Rapture time.

 

Christians and Churches not being involved in solving problems within their communities and expecting people to come to them is a major crisis in today's churches.

I wonder if many who are upset with Oprah have the same disdain and castigation for Mr. Jefferson?

 

Thomas Jefferson actually comprised his own Bible by dissecting the parts that he disagreed with or felt were not true. I actually read a book about the process that I think was entitled "Mr. Jefferson's Bible."

 

My point is that this is nothing new. Even to the debates about what was canon and what was not. (See Marcion from the 4th century) Some of the reformers (i.e. Luther) had such problems with some texts and books in the Bible that they didn't do away with them, they just chose to ignore if they could.

 

Is this the end of Christanity or the faith that seeks sola scriptura for it's foundation? Not likely. We've been here and done this before.

 

Yeah I have a problem with it.

 

It is creating a religion of his own view. Same that is being done by those that pick and choose Scriptures that they like and promote that as being their view of Christianity. While discarding the Scriptures that don't (to borrow a phrase from another poster ) make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

FB alluded to it in another thread.

 

Jesus leaves no middle room. Based on HIS CLAIMS, either a) He was the Messiah and Son of God; b) He was a nutjob, crackpot.

 

He taught on loving your neighbor and enemy. He taught on Hell and Heaven. He talked on sacrifice and love. He talked about the complete picture.

 

And we have to accept the complete picture whether we like the complete picture or not.

 

Anything else and it becomes OUT Christianity and not Jesus'.

 

Are there things I would leave out of Jesus' Christianity if I was doing it. Absolutely. That whole burning for eternity doesn't make me feel good. But if I accept Christ. THAT IS PART OF THE CHRISTIANITY that Christ taught.

Yeah I have a problem with it.

 

It is creating a religion of his own view. Same that is being done by those that pick and choose Scriptures that they like and promote that as being their view of Christianity. While discarding the Scriptures that don't (to borrow a phrase from another poster ) make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

FB alluded to it in another thread.

 

Jesus leaves no middle room. Based on HIS CLAIMS, either a) He was the Messiah and Son of God; b) He was a nutjob, crackpot.

 

He taught on loving your neighbor and enemy. He taught on Hell and Heaven. He talked on sacrifice and love. He talked about the complete picture.

 

And we have to accept the complete picture whether we like the complete picture or not.

 

Anything else and it becomes OUT Christianity and not Jesus'.

 

Are there things I would leave out of Jesus' Christianity if I was doing it. Absolutely. That whole burning for eternity doesn't make me feel good. But if I accept Christ. THAT IS PART OF THE CHRISTIANITY that Christ taught.

 

I agree with your premise LBC. And like my other points on other threads you will see that I'm searching for the "whole truth" so that it may be rightly divided. I just try to make certain that I'm dealing with God's truth and not an English truth, or American Truth, or a Western Truth.

I agree with your premise LBC. And like my other points on other threads you will see that I'm searching for the "whole truth" so that it may be rightly divided. I just try to make certain that I'm dealing with God's truth and not an English truth, or American Truth, or a Western Truth.

 

:thumb:100% in agreement.

I think you are grossly over-generalizing and labeling the "large majority" as hypocrites. I know you were only venturing a guess . Certainly there are hypocrites in the Christian ranks, and they will have to answer for some of the things you are talking about. However, don't paint us all with the same brush.

 

Well, I don't pretend to be painting you all with the same brush....but I still doubt those that I am not painting are in the majority.

 

The Worship service itself is a time to honor God and praise Him. God is the audience and we who are in attendance are not. We are not there to learn to be Christ-like, or learn anything for that matter. We are there to love God and praise Him in our acts of worship.

 

The time to study and learn to be better Christians is on our own time either during Bible study sessions alone or in groups such as Sunday School or Bible Study hour together.

Interesting. What is the point behind a sermon then?

 

The poor and needy are all around us and we do have a Christian obligation to reach out to them. But we are not to forsake our Worship to do so, Christ illustrated that point himself in a way. Your original post indicated to me that you were suggesting we spend ALL our time helping others and that we weren't supposed to go to Worship until all the poor and needy were attended to, which would, of course never be attained.

 

 

I understand that as a Christian its expected of you to be at church. I can't think that God would expect you to waste time sitting on a pew while you could be doing good. If this world is so evil as preachers would like to say - quit screaming it from a pulpit and get out and try to help it. Oh, and throwing a couple dollars in a metal plate to send to missionaries doesn't forgive you of the burden.

I respectfully disagree.

 

For starters: One that always stuck out to me. Before Christ went to Heaven he spoke of his return:

 

 

 

 

 

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

 

These words were spoken 2000 years ago.

For starters: One that always stuck out to me. Before Christ went to Heaven he spoke of his return:

 

 

 

 

 

Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

 

These words were spoken 2000 years ago.

 

I am not the Biblical scholar, but I think the view here is that what he said, did occur. Since Jesus said to know the Son is knowing the Father, when he was resurrected and then he appeared to them, they were seeing the kingdom of God.

 

Not a contradiction.

Ace, he did both. Your view is right but incomplete. He talked about hell and agony and caring for the poor.

 

Those who ONLY preach on Hell are wrong about it.

Those who ONLY preach on the good things are wrong about it.

 

Jesus was the perfect balance and that is what we should strive for, being the perfect balance of caring for our neighbors like we care about ourselves while warning them of the eternal danger of rejecting Christ.

 

Why can't we be a balance of them rather than going to an extreme of either?

 

 

But he didn't preach hell to try to convert people, he didn't preach hell to the outcasts and the poor, he preached hell to the religious people. People were attracted to Christianity b/c of the hope it contained, not because they were choosing between hell and heaven, again, most of them had not concept of what Hell was - it is not a traditional jewish belief

I am not the Biblical scholar, but I think the view here is that what he said, did occur. Since Jesus said to know the Son is knowing the Father, when he was resurrected and then he appeared to them, they were seeing the kingdom of God.

 

Not a contradiction.

 

a lot of interpretation going on there, that is not a literal translation by any means