also...can you clarify the illegal man downfield call on screens for me. I think the rule is linemen can be downfield as long as the pass is recieved behind the line of scrimmage. True or False?

 

 

Hopefully offside will answer that question, but I'm 99% certain you are correct.

 

Offside, while you answering his question, will you answer mine? If its a downfield pass (i.e. not a screen that is received by the receiver behind the line of scrimmage) and the offensive linemen maintains contact with the defensive linemen while the two go down field is that a penalty? I want to recall being taught that as long as the offensive linemen maintained contact with the defensive player, it was not a penalty and that if you lost contact, you were to immediately hit the dirt. If it is a penalty, was I taught wrong or is it a rule change thing? And thanks for your input. A great part (in my mind the most important part) of this site is educating fans of issues, developments and rules and the more people like you whom are in the know help educate the BGP faithful, the better football in the state becomes.

In high school there is no mention of chucking in the rules. Once a receiver is no longer a blocker he cannot be contacted by the defensive players. This is usually once he makes a move to begin a pass route, or once he is no longer attempting to block, but trying to position himself to receive a pass, or is beyond the defender and no longer in blocking position.

 

If a defender contacts him before the pass is thrown, that is a foul for illegal blocking or illegal use of hands, a 10 yard foul. If that contact is rough it could be called a personal foul for 15 yards. If that contact occurs while the pass if in the air it could be defensive pass interference. If that pass is not thrown near the receiver being contacted, it would not be pass interference, but still could be illegal blocking or a personal foul if rough.

 

Cornerblitz is incorrect in saying those receivers can be contacted before any pass is thrown.

BTW, one that many do not know is that there cannot be PI on a receiver who is behind the line of scrimmage. So a back getting ready to receive a screen pass who is behind the LOS can be hit before the ball gets there.

 

I think that when I played we may have been taught as a LB/DE to tackle that guy no matter what if it was like a running back flaring out behind the line for a pass. Basically just take him out of the play all together.

Hopefully offside will answer that question, but I'm 99% certain you are correct.

 

Offside, while you answering his question, will you answer mine? If its a downfield pass (i.e. not a screen that is received by the receiver behind the line of scrimmage) and the offensive linemen maintains contact with the defensive linemen while the two go down field is that a penalty? I want to recall being taught that as long as the offensive linemen maintained contact with the defensive player, it was not a penalty and that if you lost contact, you were to immediately hit the dirt. If it is a penalty, was I taught wrong or is it a rule change thing? And thanks for your input. A great part (in my mind the most important part) of this site is educating fans of issues, developments and rules and the more people like you whom are in the know help educate the BGP faithful, the better football in the state becomes.

If the pass crossed the line of scrimmage, the neutral zone is expanded to 2 yards beyond the LOS and linemen can maintain their blocks within this expanded zone. If they push their opponent beyond the expanded neutral zone, they have committed the ineligible receiver downfield foul. Your coaches told you to hit the dirt so you would be less likely to be seen by the officials. And that's pretty savvy coaching.

 

This is a lot more fun than trying to convince somebody that a controversial call was probably correct, especially when they really don't want to hear that. So thanks for all participating!

Great thread, very informative. Kudos to CSHS81 - he's always looking for good information and all benefit from these discussions.:ylsuper:

 

thanks to offside and hey ref for the professional input.

also...can you clarify the illegal man downfield call on screens for me. I think the rule is linemen can be downfield as long as the pass is recieved behind the line of scrimmage. True or False?

True, ineligible downfield only applies to passes that cross the neutral zone.

No. Its not the simple. It depends on what the offensive player is doing. If he's deemed to be a receiver ie running a route and not attempting to block, he cannot be hit even if the ball is not in the air.

 

In your example, one could interpret the following as legal:

 

A TE crossing the middle and looking back at the qb gets decked before the ball is in the air.

 

A WR running a fly pattern looking back to see if the ball is coming getting decked by the safety before the ball is in the air.

 

Neither are legal.

So someone explain to me how a downfield chuck on a reciever running a route is legal again.

No. Its not the simple. It depends on what the offensive player is doing. If he's deemed to be a receiver ie running a route and not attempting to block, he cannot be hit even if the ball is not in the air.

 

In your example, one could interpret the following as legal:

 

A TE crossing the middle and looking back at the qb gets decked before the ball is in the air.

 

A WR running a fly pattern looking back to see if the ball is coming getting decked by the safety before the ball is in the air.

 

Neither are legal.

How do you know that "TE crossing the middle" isnt going to block a LB if its a play action. We can argue this from now till judgement day and its still going to be a ref's interpretation.

In high school there is no mention of chucking in the rules. Once a receiver is no longer a blocker he cannot be contacted by the defensive players. This is usually once he makes a move to begin a pass route, or once he is no longer attempting to block, but trying to position himself to receive a pass, or is beyond the defender and no longer in blocking position.

 

If a defender contacts him before the pass is thrown, that is a foul for illegal blocking or illegal use of hands, a 10 yard foul. If that contact is rough it could be called a personal foul for 15 yards. If that contact occurs while the pass if in the air it could be defensive pass interference. If that pass is not thrown near the receiver being contacted, it would not be pass interference, but still could be illegal blocking or a personal foul if rough.

 

Cornerblitz is incorrect in saying those receivers can be contacted before any pass is thrown.

Thank you. There is no such thing as a "chuck"

True, ineligible downfield only applies to passes that cross the neutral zone.

Absolutely. Thats the way you teach the middle and the slip!!

How do you know that "TE crossing the middle" isnt going to block a LB if its a play action. We can argue this from now till judgement day and its still going to be a ref's interpretation.

 

The play action takes about 2 seconds. Most TEs are still coming out of their stance and haven't even cut yet. They're fair game at that point. I'm talking about when its obvious the qb is dropping back to pass.

If it happens without penalty, a)it wasn't seen or b)the receiver is not clearly running a route. I've talked to one of the top white hats in NKY about this specific rule because it was being taught as legal by a team's defensive coaches. Its illegal.

 

If the player is not blocking nor attempting to block and is clearly running a route (especially across the middle with his head looking back at the qb) he cannot be hit at ANY TIME.

 

With that said, I see it often without being called.

You are correct. It happens without penalty and its being taught by more than one teams DC. But the question is, if its play action, how do you determine that you are not being blocked. I mean, goodness, the offense gets all the advantage anyway! (Watch the offensive people go nuts!!)

The play action takes about 2 seconds. Most TEs are still coming out of their stance and haven't even cut yet. They're fair game at that point. I'm talking about when its obvious the qb is dropping back to pass.

I agree. A pas with no play fake is a different animal!

I agree. A pas with no play fake is a different animal!

 

Even with the play fake its easy to call. While the play fake is going on, the TE is fair game. However, once its obvious that it was a ball fake and now the TE is obviously running a route, he's off limits.

Thank you. There is no such thing as a "chuck"

There is such a thing as a "chuck", but obviously there is a new buzz word for knocking a receiver off his route.

 

What is that new buzzword?