July 5, 200719 yr Unlike Big Bob who said last night that the team has not given up on this season, I have. The Reds need to utilize the rest of the season on seeing where young players stand. There is no need for Stanton. No need for Ricky Stone. If Hatteberg and/or Conine are not in the plans for next season, move them and get Votto some ABs. Move Lohse to middle relief in Stone's spot. Get Dumatrait and Livingston innings as starters. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
July 5, 200719 yr Author Unlike Big Bob who said last night that the team has not given up on this season, I have. The Reds need to utilize the rest of the season on seeing where young players stand. There is no need for Stanton. No need for Ricky Stone. If Hatteberg and/or Conine are not in the plans for next season, move them and get Votto some ABs. Move Lohse to middle relief in Stone's spot. Get Dumatrait and Livingston innings as starters. The problem is the lost faith if, when and every time they get shelled or spend 2 weeks going 3-25. And you know they will...
July 5, 200719 yr The problem is the lost faith if, when and every time they get shelled or spend 2 weeks going 3-25. And you know they will... Lost faith? Are you telling me there are still fans who have some faith? Its a much easier sell saying "hey, we're getting ready for the future" than playing .375 baseball with old guys and retreads.
July 5, 200719 yr Not bringing up Livingston is puzzling to say the least. The guy pitched a gym in Coors field, gets sent down and has had 5+ quality starts in a row for L'ville. At least give the guy a shot to see where he stands.
July 5, 200719 yr Author Lost faith? Are you telling me there are still fans who have some faith? Its a much easier sell saying "hey, we're getting ready for the future" than playing .375 baseball with old guys and retreads. Who are the old guys and retreads? Lohse? He's in his late 20's and going to walk. A move to the pen to see if he can gain a little trade value over the next 30 days is fine. Problem is he hasn't shown much value there either. And that means moving Belisle out of the rotation as well. Isn't that just more of the same? Who is the closer when Weathers is moved? Are you sure we have anyone to say "he's the guy"? So we are left with the 1B platoon and Votto. I guess at least we have moving the only two professional hitters on the roster to look forward to...
July 5, 200719 yr Who are the old guys and retreads? Lohse? He's in his late 20's and going to walk. A move to the pen to see if he can gain a little trade value over the next 30 days is fine. Problem is he hasn't shown much value there either. And that means moving Belisle out of the rotation as well. Isn't that just more of the same? Who is the closer when Weathers is moved? Are you sure we have anyone to say "he's the guy"? So we are left with the 1B platoon and Votto. I guess at least we have moving the only two professional hitters on the roster to look forward to... 1. Lohse needs new scenery. Bullpen is fine with me. If he walks, he walks. Someone else can try to figure him out. 2.Belisle has not proven that he's a MLB starter. Thus, I'll put Dumatrait and Livingston in the rotation in 07 to see if they're capable of doing anything in 08. 3. Keep Weathers in place. 4. While they may be professional/clutch hitters, they do not appear to be long for this team - especially Hatteberg who has trade value this year. I'd love to keep him. I don't see it though. Thus, you put Votto in. Isn't Votto like 25 or 26 years old? He needs MLB ABs to see if he's legit. He's not going to get them in Louisville and we don't want to go into Sarasota with questions. Lastly, I'm open to your plan for this team.
July 5, 200719 yr Author Lastly, I'm open to your plan for this team. Didn't you tell me a short while ago that as fans we don't have to have a "plan"???
July 5, 200719 yr Move Belisle/Loshe back to the bullpen and look for him to help it out while giving Livingstone/Dumatrait a shot to show what they can do. Can't be any worse than having the worse record in the ML's.
July 5, 200719 yr Didn't you tell me a short while ago that as fans we don't have to have a "plan"??? Absolutely I did. Its not our job. However, for discussion sake, I'm offering one up and taking others into consideration.
July 5, 200719 yr Move Belisle/Loshe back to the bullpen and look for him to help it out while giving Livingstone/Dumatrait a shot to show what they can do. Can't be any worse than having the worse record in the ML's. How many of the current bullpen are Rule 5ers?
July 5, 200719 yr Author Keep Lohse in the rotation for the rest of July. If good Lohse shows up a few times he can have some value to another team down the stretch. If that doesn't work move him to the pen in August and see if he can garner a waiver wire deal. The guy flat out has quality stuff, but hasn't learned to pitch out of a jam to save his life. He hates the pen (as seen in Minnesota) so it's counter-productive to force him there while he could still bring in prospects as a starter. Matt Belisle is taking the lumps that others want to see from Livingston and Dumatrait. He would be tearing up AAA and getting the same love if the roles were reversed. I see no good in moving him back to the pen (were he wasn't all that good the last two seasons). He's a starter dealing with the typical growing pains. Good April. Bad May. Ugly June. Why can't we let a guy grow in to a role before we demand a new guy to go through the same process? Makes no sense to me. Same with the rookies in the pen. Leave them there and see who comes around unless you get someone in return for a position player to fill that role. Continue to field offers for any and every one and see where it goes. If a good deal comes along pull the trigger...
July 5, 200719 yr Keep Lohse in the rotation for the rest of July. If good Lohse shows up a few times he can have some value to another team down the stretch. If that doesn't work move him to the pen in August and see if he can garner a waiver wire deal. The guy flat out has quality stuff, but hasn't learned to pitch out of a jam to save his life. He hates the pen (as seen in Minnesota) so it's counter-productive to force him there while he could still bring in prospects as a starter. Matt Belisle is taking the lumps that others want to see from Livingston and Dumatrait. He would be tearing up AAA and getting the same love if the roles were reversed. I see no good in moving him back to the pen (were he wasn't all that good the last two seasons). He's a starter dealing with the typical growing pains. Good April. Bad May. Ugly June. Why can't we let a guy grow in to a role before we demand a new guy to go through the same process? Makes no sense to me. Same with the rookies in the pen. Leave them there and see who comes around unless you get someone in return for a position player to fill that role. Continue to field offers for any and every one and see where it goes. If a good deal comes along pull the trigger... I liked what Welsh had to say Tues about the pen. He was talking to San Frans pitching coach. The coach told Welsh that the Reds pen is very similar to what San Fran was last year, very young inexperienced and struggled. He explained how they went throught the growing pains, and are having success this year. Lets hope this will be the case for the young arms in the Reds pen.
July 5, 200719 yr Keep Lohse in the rotation for the rest of July. If good Lohse shows up a few times he can have some value to another team down the stretch. If that doesn't work move him to the pen in August and see if he can garner a waiver wire deal. The guy flat out has quality stuff, but hasn't learned to pitch out of a jam to save his life. He hates the pen (as seen in Minnesota) so it's counter-productive to force him there while he could still bring in prospects as a starter. Matt Belisle is taking the lumps that others want to see from Livingston and Dumatrait. He would be tearing up AAA and getting the same love if the roles were reversed. I see no good in moving him back to the pen (were he wasn't all that good the last two seasons). He's a starter dealing with the typical growing pains. Good April. Bad May. Ugly June. Why can't we let a guy grow in to a role before we demand a new guy to go through the same process? Makes no sense to me. Same with the rookies in the pen. Leave them there and see who comes around unless you get someone in return for a position player to fill that role. Continue to field offers for any and every one and see where it goes. If a good deal comes along pull the trigger... When do Livingston and/or Dumatrait get a shot? After Lohse goes elsewhere? Secondly, do you think Hatteberg and/or Conine are on the 08 roster? Where does Votto fit in? Do you think Bronson is here 8.1.07?
July 5, 200719 yr When do Livingston and/or Dumatrait get a shot? After Lohse goes elsewhere? Secondly, do you think Hatteberg and/or Conine are on the 08 roster? Where does Votto fit in? Do you think Bronson is here 8.1.07? Livingston and Dumatrait....In '08 Training Camp or when Roster expands, this August. Conine....No Hatteberg....Yes, if they don't keep Dunn and move him to 1st Arroyo....If he decides to not predominately throw off-speed and then an occasional FB, he can be effective. Lohse....I like his velocity, offspeed and demeanor. He just has to stay away from the middle of the plate and up. Seems like time after time, his command is up and he has limited movement, on his FB and gets in trouble. Votto....I've not seen/read, enough to comment. If some are gone before Trade Deadline, than it will have began the process. I also believe, whomever the new Manager will be, shall have considerable input regarding the Roster, or at least he should.
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