2 hours ago, futurecoach said:

To revisit this some more. A lot of times when a coach gets hired to a top job like this. They have had at least some success as a head coach at a smaller school. A deep tournament run, winning the conference something. Mark Pope had none of that. Had never won a NCAA tournament game. Had never won a conference regular season title, or conference tournament title. In his last 5 years as a head coach, his teams has finished 5th or worse in conference play. 

So before he was ever hired, and also now including his time here. He still has not shown anything for why he should have this job. The only reason he got this job was because he played for Pitino's title team in 96. 

Everyone knows this except Barnhart.  He hired him, he should have to fire him.

2 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

They do care about the name on the front, but it isn't the reason why they choose a school. It is probably factor #4. Factor 1 and 2 are coach and NIL by a good margin. For the highest level recruits, NBA positioning is in the top 3. 

I honestly don't think the name holds much water.  I think when it's all said and done, it's the money.

3 hours ago, futurecoach said:

Agreed for the most part. The name on the front will almost always get them in the door, but that name definitely isn’t going to close the deal. That takes the coach in order to be able to seal it, once they are in the door. 

 

 

The only reason the name matters is because it says “We have money and we use it on basketball.” They do not care about playing for Kentucky.

Wrong reply. 

Billy Donovan was 35-20 in two seasons at Marshall. Went to Florida and had back to back losing seasons then first round exit in 3rd year.

Dan Hurley missed the tournament completely his first two years at UConn. Years three and four led to first round losses in NCAA.

Bruce Pearl rolled into Auburn and had three straight losing seasons to start his run there. The third season was 18-14 on the court but the NCAA dropped to 6-14 after numerous violations. 

My point being that three of the coaches most fans are begging for all struggled at their school before having a breakout season(s).

Pope definitely has made some missteps. I'm guessing everyone of you screaming for Pope to be fired after year two, would have done the same with Donovan, Hurley, Pearl and several others that didn't win immediately. 

8 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Billy Donovan was 35-20 in two seasons at Marshall. Went to Florida and had back to back losing seasons then first round exit in 3rd year.

Dan Hurley missed the tournament completely his first two years at UConn. Years three and four led to first round losses in NCAA.

Bruce Pearl rolled into Auburn and had three straight losing seasons to start his run there. The third season was 18-14 on the court but the NCAA dropped to 6-14 after numerous violations. 

My point being that three of the coaches most fans are begging for all struggled at their school before having a breakout season(s).

Pope definitely has made some missteps. I'm guessing everyone of you screaming for Pope to be fired after year two, would have done the same with Donovan, Hurley, Pearl and several others that didn't win immediately. 

You are correct, it does take time and may not win immediately. Here is the difference though, and we will use your examples. Those guys had proven they can win at least something, even before they got those jobs. Especially Pearl and Hurley. Pearl had won everywhere he had been. Won a D2 title. Won the conference at smaller schools. Went on a tournament run at a small school that landed him the Tennessee job. Was winning at Tennessee before he got in trouble. Dan Hurley won a conference title at Rhode Island and then won first round tournament games in back to back years before getting Uconn job. Donovan in two years at Marshall did win the conference one year, but Florida definitely took a chance there. Which credit to Florida, as they seem to be an outlier. As they took a chance on Golden too, as he hadn’t done much either but worked out. So we have to hope Pope is an outlier like Golden was. Issue is he seems to struggle even connecting with players. 
 

Mark Pope though unlike those coaches has zero history of producing any real kind of success. Never won a conference or tournament title. Never won a tournament game until he got to UK. 
 

So you are correct that it can take time. However, in those cases you mentioned. Those guys had at least shown that they are capable of winning at something. Pope has literally done nothing anywhere as a coach, so hard to trust that he suddenly will here. Which in today’s NIL transfer portal world. It is actually much easier to completely flip a roster in one year and win right away. 

While I don’t believe they have any inside info and is probably their opinion. Here is a good little listen as these guys talked about UK and Pope and his struggles to land players. A lot of good points here imo. The biggest one is players just don’t seem to connect with Pope. 
 

https://x.com/OutKickHotMic/status/2049941862559965267/video/1?s=46

14 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

The only reason the name matters is because it says “We have money and we use it on basketball.” They do not care about playing for Kentucky.

It is PR, media and marketing. Name recognition is a factor. 

2 hours ago, futurecoach said:

While I don’t believe they have any inside info and is probably their opinion. Here is a good little listen as these guys talked about UK and Pope and his struggles to land players. A lot of good points here imo. The biggest one is players just don’t seem to connect with Pope. 
 

https://x.com/OutKickHotMic/status/2049941862559965267/video/1?s=46

Didn't listen yet, but as I said previously, inability to land players is the huge concern with Pope. 

2 hours ago, futurecoach said:

You are correct, it does take time and may not win immediately. Here is the difference though, and we will use your examples. Those guys had proven they can win at least something, even before they got those jobs. Especially Pearl and Hurley. Pearl had won everywhere he had been. Won a D2 title. Won the conference at smaller schools. Went on a tournament run at a small school that landed him the Tennessee job. Was winning at Tennessee before he got in trouble. Dan Hurley won a conference title at Rhode Island and then won first round tournament games in back to back years before getting Uconn job. Donovan in two years at Marshall did win the conference one year, but Florida definitely took a chance there. Which credit to Florida, as they seem to be an outlier. As they took a chance on Golden too, as he hadn’t done much either but worked out. So we have to hope Pope is an outlier like Golden was. Issue is he seems to struggle even connecting with players. 
 

Mark Pope though unlike those coaches has zero history of producing any real kind of success. Never won a conference or tournament title. Never won a tournament game until he got to UK. 
 

So you are correct that it can take time. However, in those cases you mentioned. Those guys had at least shown that they are capable of winning at something. Pope has literally done nothing anywhere as a coach, so hard to trust that he suddenly will here. Which in today’s NIL transfer portal world. It is actually much easier to completely flip a roster in one year and win right away. 

So if Donovan got hired next season and started off just like he did at Florida with back to back losing seasons, you'd be OK with it, "Because he's won before."

Or if Bruce Pearl took over and had 3 straight losing seasons and NCAA problems, it's OK because he made a Final 4 once?

My point that I made not have been clear about was that even some coaches that are considered top tier had prolonged struggles. Struggles that would have had everyone calling for their head if they were here, except for a few saying, "But he's won before." 

Pope needs a Mashburn!

42 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

It is PR, media and marketing. Name recognition is a factor. 

It’s not for the reason UK fans want it to be. That’s the point. 

22 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

So if Donovan got hired next season and started off just like he did at Florida with back to back losing seasons, you'd be OK with it, "Because he's won before."

Or if Bruce Pearl took over and had 3 straight losing seasons and NCAA problems, it's OK because he made a Final 4 once?

My point that I made not have been clear about was that even some coaches that are considered top tier had prolonged struggles. Struggles that would have had everyone calling for their head if they were here, except for a few saying, "But he's won before." 

No doubt people would be frustrated, and possibly even talking about moving on from them too with bad starts. My point is even with those coaches, you at least knew they have shown they can win and could maybe hold on to a little hope. Pope literally has never shown he can win anywhere, so really no much hope even reason to think that he may get it going. 

At the end of the day there really is nothing to suggest that this was a good hire. Especially when you get a big time job, usually that coach has had some success somewhere. The only time when a big school doesn't hire someone who has had success somewhere, is when they maybe promote within like Duke did. 

Dusty May before Michigan, took FAU on a final four run. Bill Self before Kansas took Tulsa and Illinois to elite 8's. Calipari before UK had taken two different schools to final fours. Ben Howland before taking the UCLA job had won conference regular season titles and made sweet 16's. 

You are completely correct, even if a proven coach got this job. If he had gotten off to a bad start, people would be unhappy here no doubt. At least there still would be some hope, some evidence that they could get it right before moving on. There is no such evidence with Pope to suggest he will get it right. Simply a very bad hire in every aspect. 

I truly hope Pope proves me wrong, and I am the one who looks like an idiot for not believing he can get it done. 

11 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Billy Donovan was 35-20 in two seasons at Marshall. Went to Florida and had back to back losing seasons then first round exit in 3rd year.

Dan Hurley missed the tournament completely his first two years at UConn. Years three and four led to first round losses in NCAA.

Bruce Pearl rolled into Auburn and had three straight losing seasons to start his run there. The third season was 18-14 on the court but the NCAA dropped to 6-14 after numerous violations. 

My point being that three of the coaches most fans are begging for all struggled at their school before having a breakout season(s).

Pope definitely has made some missteps. I'm guessing everyone of you screaming for Pope to be fired after year two, would have done the same with Donovan, Hurley, Pearl and several others that didn't win immediately. 

Apples to cinder blocks.

In the world of NIL and the transfer portal, you win and you win immediately or you’re out. You’re not getting 4-5 years of what Pope has produced so far at any big school. 

42 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

So if Donovan got hired next season and started off just like he did at Florida with back to back losing seasons, you'd be OK with it, "Because he's won before."

Or if Bruce Pearl took over and had 3 straight losing seasons and NCAA problems, it's OK because he made a Final 4 once?

My point that I made not have been clear about was that even some coaches that are considered top tier had prolonged struggles. Struggles that would have had everyone calling for their head if they were here, except for a few saying, "But he's won before." 

Also to add on to your examples. Florida, Auburn, and UConn all had losing records the year before Donovan, Pearl, and Hurley took over. Which was also before the transfer portal, so wasn't easy to just completely flip the roster over like it is now. A coach can literally come in from day one and completely flip the roster and win now. 

While obviously all UK fan were upset with the lack of tournament wins the last few years with Cal. let's also not act like Pope was taking over as bad of teams as those coaches did and having to stick with those rosters. While UK may have had some early round exits. They were good teams, they simply got upset. So Pope was not taking over a bad program like those coaches were. Plus Pope is in a time where he could flip a roster over and make it very good right now. 

So even with those examples, not much is comparable.