8 hours ago, MaddenCurse44 said:

Team sport not one player is bigger than the team all players should be all in. I hope NFL teams snub kids that don't play.

So if you take a day off work you shouldn’t be able to get a promotion?

The first answer to this is obviously to pay the players an appearance fee or something similar.

The second answer is to not take off six weeks between the regular season and bowls. You wouldn’t play the basketball tournament in May.

Finally, I’m always amazed at the amount of folks who cheer the corporation and drag the worker.

People like to use the angle of "he's letting his team down." I'd be shocked if most college football players didn't agree with a teammate who is looking at being drafted sitting out of a meaningless bowl game. They get it. 

1 minute ago, gchs_uk9 said:

Finally, I’m always amazed at the amount of folks who cheer the corporation and drag the worker.

But they only do so when they aren't the worker in question. 

I have no problem with it at all. Right now, there are 3 postseason games that have any real meaning...the two semi-finals and the final. The rest of the bowl games mean zero, zip, zilch to the players. All risk, no reward. If you're an NFL level player, there's nothing to be gained, and potential everything to be lost in the case of injury. It's no worse than leaving school early to go pro. And an extra day of game film isn't going to change anyone's opinion of you....you've got years of game film and the combine that will pretty much tell your story. Technically, you could make the argument that those guys leaving early abandoned their teams as well. For the elite player, college football is a means to an end, with the NFL being the prize. The 2021/22 Holiday Bowl isn't.

 

5 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I have no problem with it at all. Right now, there are 3 postseason games that have any real meaning...the two semi-finals and the final. The rest of the bowl games mean zero, zip, zilch to the players. All risk, no reward. If you're an NFL level player, there's nothing to be gained, and potential everything to be lost in the case of injury. It's no worse than leaving school early to go pro. And an extra day of game film isn't going to change anyone's opinion of you....you've got years of game film and the combine that will pretty much tell your story. Technically, you could make the argument that those guys leaving early abandoned their teams as well. For the elite player, college football is a means to an end, with the NFL being the prize. The 2021/22 Holiday Bowl isn't.

 

All of this is true. And in an expanded playoff last night’s Pitt/Michigan State game would have been meaningful in numerous ways. Nobody would have sat.

Like you said, the bowls are even more now what they always were: exhibitions. Heck, it wasn’t until the mid-1960s that the bowl game results even counted toward the final poll and until the late-1990s before players bowl stats were official. 

2 minutes ago, gchs_uk9 said:

All of this is true. And in an expanded playoff last night’s Pitt/Michigan State game would have been meaningful in numerous ways. Nobody would have sat.

Like you said, the bowls are even more now what they always were: exhibitions. Heck, it wasn’t until the mid-1960s that the bowl game results even counted toward the final poll and until the late-1990s before players bowl stats were official. 

The bowl games for the most part have been about making money...for the sponsors, the schools, conferences, basically everyone involved but the players. Even when they mattered more, only a few at most, and usually only one ever really meant anything. If you want players to play post season games, make more of them matter by expanding the playoffs.

20 hours ago, MaddenCurse44 said:

If I was the college I would send the player a bill for his scholarship that he didn't honor.

What about the schools that don't honor scholarships for various reasons, like coaching changes? Honoring is a two way street.

All of this is evidence of the evolution of selfishness and me first approach as we see elsewhere in this world. Suffice it to say, the almighty dollar for me is all that matters. The NCAA had barriers that helped them keep this at bay for a long time but those are eroding quickly. The people lamenting this evolution want that time back when team mattered more than me. Team first is a psychological motivational trick for most once you get above high school.  Me first is creeping down to high school and even middle schools on a steady pace. Everyone can judge whether that is right or wrong. Personally, I believe there needs to be a balance. There are times when team first does matter. Is playing in a bowl game one of them? For those headed to the NFL, is team first is the top priority? Maybe for some because of personal beliefs and standards, but not for financial reasons. Financially, me first and how this will impact me in the NFL is the top priority. Measure the risk and then decide whether the rewards outweight the risks.

Following up on the above, what is the financial risk?

Case study - Jaylon Smith, LB, Notre Dame; NFL 2016 draft pick

Smith was projected by some to be the first linebacker drafted in the 2016 NFL draft. He tore his ACL in a bowl game. The injury was so severe that he missed the entire 2016 season. How did this impact Jaylon Smith financially?

2016 - Despite the knee injury, Smith was drafted by the Cowboys early in round 2 at pick #34. The top LB in that draft was Leonard Floyd at pick #9. Smith signed a contract worth $6.49 million, $4.42M guaranteed, $2.92M signing bonus. Floyd signed a $15.78M contract, $15.33M guaranteed, $9.67M bonus. The injury cost Smith a little over $10M in full value, and almost $11M in guaranteed money. If Smith's career ended, that is what he lost.

Next contract - Smith signed an extension prior to the 2019 season. He played well enough to warrant that. To be expected if the projections before the 2016 draft were right. I would argue the low value first contract led to the early contract extension for Smith. His 2019 extension was worth $64M with $35.5M guaranteed. Meanwhile, #9 pick Floyd, also playing very well, was locked into his rookie contract and had his 5th year option  picked up. By the end of 2019, the winner financially was Smith by more than $20M in guaranteed money.

2020 - Floyd was released and signed a 1 year contract with the Rams. Smith played 2020 under his new contract. By the end of 2020, Smith is still the winner financially - despite the ACL bowl game injury.

2021 - Floyd gets his contract. Perhaps a bit of irony in that Floyd's contract is extension is ... $64M, the same value Smith received in 2019. It took 2 more years for Floyd to get there but he got it. A total of $32.5M was guaranteed ($3M less than Smith's contract). The rest of the contract is salary, subject to being lost if Floyd is cut. Meanwhile, Smith was released by the Cowboys in October. picked up and then released by the Packers, then picked up by the Giants where he is currently active.

Financial bottom line - At the end of 2021, Smith's career earnings are @$32 million. Including future guaranteed money, he is $40.6M in earnings. Floyd's career earnings are $41.9 million. Floyd is guaranteed another $13.5M salary in 2022.

Did Smith's injury cost him financially? I think yes, because the money attributed directly to injury impact is in that initial contract. Assuming Smith gets drafted where Floyd did if he is healthy, it cost him $10M. Everything earned after that is based on performance. Smith made up the difference by getting the early extension. After 5 years, he is financially ahead of Floyd. I suppose you could argue the injury actually helped him because he got the early extension. Performance is driving the money now and Floyd is outperforming Smith. At the end of his career, Smith is set for life. The injury did not change that.

Looking back with that hindsight - should he have played in the bowl game?

5 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Following up on the above, what is the financial risk?

Case study - Jaylon Smith, LB, Notre Dame; NFL 2016 draft pick

Smith was projected by some to be the first linebacker drafted in the 2016 NFL draft. He tore his ACL in a bowl game. The injury was so severe that he missed the entire 2016 season. How did this impact Jaylon Smith financially?

2016 - Despite the knee injury, Smith was drafted by the Cowboys early in round 2 at pick #34. The top LB in that draft was Leonard Floyd at pick #9. Smith signed a contract worth $6.49 million, $4.42M guaranteed, $2.92M signing bonus. Floyd signed a $15.78M contract, $15.33M guaranteed, $9.67M bonus. The injury cost Smith a little over $10M in full value, and almost $11M in guaranteed money. If Smith's career ended, that is what he lost.

Next contract - Smith signed an extension prior to the 2019 season. He played well enough to warrant that. To be expected if the projections before the 2016 draft were right. I would argue the low value first contract led to the early contract extension for Smith. His 2019 extension was worth $64M with $35.5M guaranteed. Meanwhile, #9 pick Floyd, also playing very well, was locked into his rookie contract and had his 5th year option  picked up. By the end of 2019, the winner financially was Smith by more than $20M in guaranteed money.

2020 - Floyd was released and signed a 1 year contract with the Rams. Smith played 2020 under his new contract. By the end of 2020, Smith is still the winner financially - despite the ACL bowl game injury.

2021 - Floyd gets his contract. Perhaps a bit of irony in that Floyd's contract is extension is ... $64M, the same value Smith received in 2019. It took 2 more years for Floyd to get there but he got it. A total of $32.5M was guaranteed ($3M less than Smith's contract). The rest of the contract is salary, subject to being lost if Floyd is cut. Meanwhile, Smith was released by the Cowboys in October. picked up and then released by the Packers, then picked up by the Giants where he is currently active.

Financial bottom line - At the end of 2021, Smith's career earnings are @$32 million. Including future guaranteed money, he is $40.6M in earnings. Floyd's career earnings are $41.9 million. Floyd is guaranteed another $13.5M salary in 2022.

Did Smith's injury cost him financially? I think yes, because the money attributed directly to injury impact is in that initial contract. Assuming Smith gets drafted where Floyd did if he is healthy, it cost him $10M. Everything earned after that is based on performance. Smith made up the difference by getting the early extension. After 5 years, he is financially ahead of Floyd. I suppose you could argue the injury actually helped him because he got the early extension. Performance is driving the money now and Floyd is outperforming Smith. At the end of his career, Smith is set for life. The injury did not change that.

Looking back with that hindsight - should he have played in the bowl game?

I love it when you get interested in a topic VoR, thanks!

35 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Following up on the above, what is the financial risk?

Case study - Jaylon Smith, LB, Notre Dame; NFL 2016 draft pick

Smith was projected by some to be the first linebacker drafted in the 2016 NFL draft. He tore his ACL in a bowl game. The injury was so severe that he missed the entire 2016 season. How did this impact Jaylon Smith financially?

2016 - Despite the knee injury, Smith was drafted by the Cowboys early in round 2 at pick #34. The top LB in that draft was Leonard Floyd at pick #9. Smith signed a contract worth $6.49 million, $4.42M guaranteed, $2.92M signing bonus. Floyd signed a $15.78M contract, $15.33M guaranteed, $9.67M bonus. The injury cost Smith a little over $10M in full value, and almost $11M in guaranteed money. If Smith's career ended, that is what he lost.

Next contract - Smith signed an extension prior to the 2019 season. He played well enough to warrant that. To be expected if the projections before the 2016 draft were right. I would argue the low value first contract led to the early contract extension for Smith. His 2019 extension was worth $64M with $35.5M guaranteed. Meanwhile, #9 pick Floyd, also playing very well, was locked into his rookie contract and had his 5th year option  picked up. By the end of 2019, the winner financially was Smith by more than $20M in guaranteed money.

2020 - Floyd was released and signed a 1 year contract with the Rams. Smith played 2020 under his new contract. By the end of 2020, Smith is still the winner financially - despite the ACL bowl game injury.

2021 - Floyd gets his contract. Perhaps a bit of irony in that Floyd's contract is extension is ... $64M, the same value Smith received in 2019. It took 2 more years for Floyd to get there but he got it. A total of $32.5M was guaranteed ($3M less than Smith's contract). The rest of the contract is salary, subject to being lost if Floyd is cut. Meanwhile, Smith was released by the Cowboys in October. picked up and then released by the Packers, then picked up by the Giants where he is currently active.

Financial bottom line - At the end of 2021, Smith's career earnings are @$32 million. Including future guaranteed money, he is $40.6M in earnings. Floyd's career earnings are $41.9 million. Floyd is guaranteed another $13.5M salary in 2022.

Did Smith's injury cost him financially? I think yes, because the money attributed directly to injury impact is in that initial contract. Assuming Smith gets drafted where Floyd did if he is healthy, it cost him $10M. Everything earned after that is based on performance. Smith made up the difference by getting the early extension. After 5 years, he is financially ahead of Floyd. I suppose you could argue the injury actually helped him because he got the early extension. Performance is driving the money now and Floyd is outperforming Smith. At the end of his career, Smith is set for life. The injury did not change that.

Looking back with that hindsight - should he have played in the bowl game?

A little more context (nice work on the research), the Cowboys took a flier on drafting Smith. It was more than just your standard ACL tear, it was an ACL and LCL tear with presumed nerve damage and many didn't know if he would play in the NFL. Most thought with his talent he would be a fourth rounder, but some had him falling to the sixth round. Without the injury, Smith was most likely the top LB to come off the board and who knows how his career would have unfolded. He made the most of what he was given, with now the past couple years his play significantly diminishing.

$40M is more than 99.99% of us can imagine. But you know what is nicer? $75M.

We are obviously dealing in hypotheticals here, but his journey to earn was made significantly tougher out of the gate compared to most uninjured draftees.

41 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I suppose you could argue the injury actually helped him because he got the early extension. Performance is driving the money now and Floyd is outperforming Smith. At the end of his career, Smith is set for life. The injury did not change that.

This all assumes someone is able to play in the NFL after an injury. In this case he could. 

It's not worth the risk to many, for obvious reasons. 

38 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

This all assumes someone is able to play in the NFL after an injury. In this case he could. 

It's not worth the risk to many, for obvious reasons. 

The risk to the player is the obvious part of the equation. What exactly is the reward for playing? Leading your team to a Texas Bowl (or whatever non playoff bowl you choose) isn't exactly life changing for the player or his teammates. Heck his backup who gets to play is probably the person most affected by the star sitting out and that's in a positive way. If I'm a teammate, I'm not going to mad if the star sits out to protect his chance at playing in the league, no matter how small the risk of career threatening injury might be.