I've always thought this quote by Ulysses Grant summed up the Civil War quite well:

 

"I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."

 

There is no question the Confederates fought hard and many truly believed in their cause. But that cause, no matter how you twist it, was slavery. You can say it was to sustain their way of life - that way included slavery. You can say it was to secede and be on their own - their constitution was nearly the exact same as that of the U.S., save for the perpetual allowance of slavery. You can say it was in order to expand territory - Kansas, Nebraska, and states beyond were hopeful areas for further congressional votes, votes which would have extended slavery and made emancipation impossible. Or you can say it was states' rights - the most significant right desired by the Confederate states was to maintain slavery.

 

I'll never argue the Union was a saint in any of this. Slavery did exist in Union states. The Fugitive Slave Act did allow northerners to capture runaways and sell them back to the south. New Yorkers (and many others) rioted rather than go fight a war to free Africans when they were treated nearly as poorly in their Manhattan slums. And certainly the first and second Great Migrations didn't showcase a welcoming attitude by whites for their new black neighbors.

 

These statues and monuments were in many cases erected by family members whose sons, fathers, and brothers had been killed in the war. Those people, however, are long since gone. You may visit those monuments and think about those dead (some perhaps even up the branches of your family tree), but the monuments have long since moved from memorials to the dead to memorials to a cause - "one for which there was the least excuse."

They don't have to be destroyed (I can potentially get with relocation to museums), but they should no longer hold a place in the foremost areas of our cities and towns, colleges and universities, parks and public areas. It is time for all to move on.

I've always thought this quote by Ulysses Grant summed up the Civil War quite well:

 

"I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."

 

There is no question the Confederates fought hard and many truly believed in their cause. But that cause, no matter how you twist it, was slavery. You can say it was to sustain their way of life - that way included slavery. You can say it was to secede and be on their own - their constitution was nearly the exact same as that of the U.S., save for the perpetual allowance of slavery. You can say it was in order to expand territory - Kansas, Nebraska, and states beyond were hopeful areas for further congressional votes, votes which would have extended slavery and made emancipation impossible. Or you can say it was states' rights - the most significant right desired by the Confederate states was to maintain slavery.

 

I'll never argue the Union was a saint in any of this. Slavery did exist in Union states. The Fugitive Slave Act did allow northerners to capture runaways and sell them back to the south. New Yorkers (and many others) rioted rather than go fight a war to free Africans when they were treated nearly as poorly in their Manhattan slums. And certainly the first and second Great Migrations didn't showcase a welcoming attitude by whites for their new black neighbors.

 

These statues and monuments were in many cases erected by family members whose sons, fathers, and brothers had been killed in the war. Those people, however, are long since gone. You may visit those monuments and think about those dead (some perhaps even up the branches of your family tree), but the monuments have long since moved from memorials to the dead to memorials to a cause - "one for which there was the least excuse."

They don't have to be destroyed (I can potentially get with relocation to museums), but they should no longer hold a place in the foremost areas of our cities and towns, colleges and universities, parks and public areas. It is time for all to move on.

 

What I tried to say in post 11, but you explained it better.

I don't think I have ever seen an actual confederate statue.

Here's an interesting factoid.

 

There's a Union monument in Vanceburg (Lewis County) that at one time - and may still be - the only Union monument south of the Mason-Dixon line that is not in a public cemetery.

 

Union Monument in Vanceburg - Wikipedia

Well we are removing the statues of traitors, when we only exist as a country because we were traitors.

Do you want to build a straw man?

Robert E. Lee wrote this in a letter in December 1866, a year and a half after the end of the US Civil War. It was written to a fellow Confederate General, Thomas Rosser, in response to a letter from General Rosser asking for Lee's opinion on a monument being erected to the memory of the dead Confederate soldiers. The actual letter is archived with the Lee Papers at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, where all of last weekend's protests regarding the removal of a Confederate monument took place:

 

 

My dear Genl,

 

I have considered the questions in your letter of the 8th Inst & am unable to advise as to the efficacy of the scheme proposed for the accomplishment of the object in view. That can be better determined by those more conversant with similar plans than I am.

 

As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated; my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; & of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour. All I think that can now be done, is to aid our noble & generous women in their efforts to protect the graves & mark the last resting places of those who have fallen, & wait for better times.

I am very glad to hear of your comfortable establishment in Baltimore & that Mrs. Rosser is with you. Please present to her my warm regards. It would give me great pleasure to meet you both anywhere, & especially at times of leisure in the mountains of Virginia; but such times look too distant for me to contemplate, much less for me now to make arrangements for -

Very truly yours

R E Lee

In 1869 Robert E. Lee wrote another letter, this time declining an invitation a memorial ceremony at the Gettysburg battlefield held as a memorial to those who died on both sides during the battle. This time he stated "I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife & to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered."

 

 

Dear Sir:

 

Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until today your letter of the 26th Ulto: enclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the position & movements of the Armies on the field.

My engagements will not permit me to be present, & I believe if there I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife & to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered.

 

Very respy your obt Sevt

 

R E Lee

Robert E. Lee's great-great grandson has gone on record stating that it the Confederate statues would be more appropriate in museums rather than left as public monuments. I tend to agree.

 

Along that line, there are numerous partial and complete remains of Nazi concentration camps left standing in Europe to memorialize the Holocaust victims. They are NOT adorned with statues or memorials to the Nazis, but they are left there as an exhibit and testament to what took place during WWII. Wouldn't that be similarly achievable by putting the Confederate statues in a museum?

I don't think I have ever seen an actual confederate statue.

 

I have a hard time believing that. You've never been in downtown Lex, where there's a Confederate statue sitting atop an old slave market?

Put 'em in a museum, a place of education and context. Not in a public square of glorification, so that we can avoid clods like the guy in the picture I saw posted somewhere online during the past few days of the clown who posed with the Jefferson Davis statue in the Capitol Rotunda with the Stars'n'Bars, and who left that flag there as a message to anyone else who comes across it.

 

But keep on trumpeting the "Southern Heritage" angle if you're OK with being a supporter of the enslavement of human beings. Sure, it's "State's Rights," but it was used as a "state's rights to keep people enslaved and support a cause designed to further that horrific economic system."

 

There's no getting away from that part of it. Thank God my people were immigrant scum who came to this country long after that foolish chapter in our country's history unfolded.

 

There's a difference between "reverence" and "glorification." Those on the "Save your Confederate money, the South's gonna rise again" side should spend some time exploring the difference between the two. I have no problem with those statues at a cemetery. Not on the doorstep of a courthouse where folks of all color and creed have to walk by when they're walking into a place of what is supposed to be "justice."

And for reference purposes, one of the least proud facts of my mom's side of the family is that my grandfather's brother was a card-carrying Nazi. That's my heritage, and I can't run away from it. That doesn't mean I should embrace it, either.

 

I'm guessing there's at least a few of you folks in the German strongholds in NoKy and L'ville and other Ohio River towns who have a similar history in their families. How do you deal with it?

This article is worth 10 minutes of your time. It covers a lot of ground, and in ways you may not necessarily expect.

 

Dismantling Dixie: The Summer the Confederate Monuments Came Crashing Down - The Ringer

My question is quite simple, why has this not been a priority for most until now?

Is this where we are headed? If so, I cannot support this.

 

Watch: CNN commentator calls for the removal of Washington and Jefferson statues – TheBlaze

Is this where we are headed? If so, I cannot support this.

 

Watch: CNN commentator calls for the removal of Washington and Jefferson statues – TheBlaze

 

I wouldn't either. While many of the founding fathers were slave owners, they did not commit treason against their own country. The moral equivalency that some are trying to portray doesn't hold water.