LBBC, I understand your frustration, but the better question is WHY do these girls want to attend LC? I don't doubt that sports is a big part of the decision, but whose fault is that? LC and the girls schools in Louisville put a lot of emphasis and support into their sports programs. Why wouldn't the girls want to take advantage of that. You mentioned the wide geographic area availabe to LC. Draw a radius around your school of the same size and look at the population available in that area. How large is it? I don't loike it when people tell others to work harder. It implies something about the coaches and players that in many cases is not true. What is true is that in many cases the school and its supporters don't work as hard. That puts the coach and players in a tough spot, but the solution to that tough spot does not lie in the private schools.

LBBC, I understand your frustration, but the better question is WHY do these girls want to attend LC? I don't doubt that sports is a big part of the decision, but whose fault is that? LC and the girls schools in Louisville put a lot of emphasis and support into their sports programs. Why wouldn't the girls want to take advantage of that. You mentioned the wide geographic area availabe to LC. Draw a radius around your school of the same size and look at the population available in that area. How large is it? I don't loike it when people tell others to work harder. It implies something about the coaches and players that in many cases is not true. What is true is that in many cases the school and its supporters don't work as hard. That puts the coach and players in a tough spot, but the solution to that tough spot does not lie in the private schools.

You last part I agree with. If it was simply just about working harder than you would have to tell Highlands that they must not work as hard as ST. X. I believe X has beat them the last two seasons. And I don't believe that X outworks the coaching staff or supporters of Highlands.

 

I think this issue is one that has no good answer. Anyway you fall, a good number of kids are/will suffer.

 

I will say that while LC and the others do put a good amount of resources, time and effort, the big difference lies with the parents who spend time, resources, effort with their kids developing LONG before they got into HS. Those players were not developed by LC but by the parents who have spend many hours on the road taking their children to leagues, tournaments, AAU and the like. I don't begrudge them that whatsoever.

 

But unfortunately in a public school setting, those parents are the rarity and not the norm. And I think that is a mindset that is behind this movement. The resources including parental support is simply not there. It is not about kicking out the privates but developing two classifications that are more similar.

 

Also, why I don't think a split at the private/public split is the way to go.

You last part I agree with. If it was simply just about working harder than you would have to tell Highlands that they must not work as hard as ST. X. I believe X has beat them the last two seasons. And I don't believe that X outworks the coaching staff or supporters of Highlands.

 

I think this issue is one that has no good answer. Anyway you fall, a good number of kids are/will suffer.

 

I will say that while LC and the others do put a good amount of resources, time and effort, the big difference lies with the parents who spend time, resources, effort with their kids developing LONG before they got into HS. Those players were not developed by LC but by the parents who have spend many hours on the road taking their children to leagues, tournaments, AAU and the like. I don't begrudge them that whatsoever.

 

But unfortunately in a public school setting, those parents are the rarity and not the norm. And I think that is a mindset that is behind this movement. The resources including parental support is simply not there. It is not about kicking out the privates but developing two classifications that are more similar.

 

Also, why I don't think a split at the private/public split is the way to go.

 

Is it correct that you feel that a split should be rural/ urban, if at all?

Is it correct that you feel that a split should be rural/ urban, if at all?

http://www.bluegrasspreps.com/showthread.php?t=86225

 

This was my compromise from months ago.

Good, then why dont they just say we will only take kids from Jefferson county. Come on, one of the founding thoughts of the US was public education. Think of the mess it would cause if we were to say OK everyone can go anywhere they want. That is what you are saying right, Every kid should be able to go anywhere they want, right. Kids from IN comeing here kids from here going there, kids from other counties going here and vis-versa. That would cause a big big problem. it would be easier for T and X to say, OK 95% of our student body comes from jefferson county anyways, we should only take students from there. No Problems to me. Then all would be fair, I never said public kids cant go to catholic schools or vise-versa, just make them play by open enrollment rules. What would be the big deal about that. You would still get all the kids your going to get now. (or at least that is what I am hearing from you)

 

Kids being able to go to ANY school? We can't have that! Sounds too much like freedom. Then you might have to actually give them some rights too. We can't have any of that.

Kids being able to go to ANY school? We can't have that! Sounds too much like freedom. Then you might have to actually give them some rights too. We can't have any of that.

Sounds like a great idea, let everyone attend where they want. Just accept the whole package if you chose to attend private school. Just seperate the two systems totally. It is everyones right to choose the school system for thier kids. Just shouldn't be the best of all worlds. Let the Privates stay Private. Total seperation!!!!

Sounds like a great idea, let everyone attend where they want. Just accept the whole package if you chose to attend private school. Just seperate the two systems totally. It is everyones right to choose the school system for thier kids. Just shouldn't be the best of all worlds. Let the Privates stay Private. Total seperation!!!!

Here is the problem though BBall King, if you are intent on resting all of this at the private's feet, what are going to do about Manual that can draw kids from anywhere IN THEIR COUNTY (Jefferson County) and a school from EKY will have a difficult time competing against them? Or what about a Highlands, Beechwood that can draw and pay tuition from the 5 county area of NKY? Or what about Kenton County schools of Dixie Heights, Simon Kenton and Scott that can have kids coming from anywhere within their county?

 

You STILL will have inequity issues except they won't be named St. X, Trinity Lex Christian or Lex Catholic.

http://www.bluegrasspreps.com/showthread.php?t=86225

 

This was my compromise from months ago.

 

Well.. that is not what your link says. Wouldn't your system more accurately be summarized as: All schools in a rural area (counties with population density less than XXX) are in one division, and the remainder in the other?

Well.. that is not what your link says. Wouldn't your system more accurately be summarized as: All schools in a rural area (counties with population density less than XXX) are in one division, and the remainder in the other?

From the link....

 

Level 1 1200 students or more, 9th through 12th grade. For those without a 9th grade directly in the HS, 900 students or more, 10th through 12th grade.

 

Level 2 Students receive financial aid or school systems with open enrollment (added in this post) less than 900 students.

 

Level 3 School systems that have closed boundaries, no financial aid and are more than 800 students 9-12.

 

Level 4 School systems that have closed boundaries, no financial aid and are less than 800 students 9-12.

 

Not sure where you say it is strictly rural breakdowns. Schools can choose where they fit beyond the size issue. A private school can submit that they will only draw from a set closed boundaries, provide no financial aid and compete in Level 4.

 

The first two levels would definitely include a mixture of publics/privates, rural/urban.

 

As this debate has progressed, I would be willing to consider dropping the financial aid issue from Level 3 and 4 as I have learned how financial aid is done at privates.

But open enrollment has been held up as a thing that schools place on themselves and for a good number of rural schools they could have open enrollment and it would not change one thing. They could vote for it or vote against it and it is irrelevant. Open enrollment is not the cureall.

 

That is why I have been saying for a long time in this forum that it is more a rural/urban issue than a public/private issue.

 

This is the post I was referring to (#86, above). My point is that if you feel it is a rural/urban issue, how is your link to the earlier post and your proposed solution germane to the problem as you see it?

This is the post I was referring to (#86, above). My point is that if you feel it is a rural/urban issue, how is your link to the earlier post and your proposed solution germane to the problem as you see it?

For the most part, the divisions will come from a rural/urban setting. Closed boundaries would mean that those schools that allow open enrollment, which is more active in a urban setting than it is in a rural setting, would not be eligible for the last 2 classifications. The vast, vast majority of schools in the last 2 classes would turn out to be rural schools divided at a size level. The first 2 classes would turn out to be more urban, private (which are mainly urban), and open enrollment (which is mimicking the private's boundaries issue).

 

Thus, while it is NOT strictly a division of rural/urban, it is a division that would mostly be that division but also gives the schools choices on where they wish to fall except on size.

Sounds like a great idea, let everyone attend where they want. Just accept the whole package if you chose to attend private school. Just seperate the two systems totally. It is everyones right to choose the school system for thier kids. Just shouldn't be the best of all worlds. Let the Privates stay Private. Total seperation!!!!

 

I'm pretty sure that the private school in the state are affiliated with religious groups. Your solution would violate the seperation rule, seperation of church and state, since the KHSAA is tax supported. This is probably the biggest reason the BOE won't touch this problem. Isn't it cool that churches can benefit from a rule that was intended to exclude them. :dancingpa

I'm pretty sure that the private school in the state are affiliated with religious groups. Your solution would violate the seperation rule, seperation of church and state, since the KHSAA is tax supported. This is probably the biggest reason the BOE won't touch this problem. Isn't it cool that churches can benefit from a rule that was intended to exclude them. :dancingpa

Not every private school in KY is religiously affiliated.

The number of high schools that are eligible under KHSAA guidelines that are not affiliated with religious groups is so small, I think the arguement can be made and held up in a court of law. As I said I think that might be the reason the BOE will not take action on this issue. I could be wrong.

You last part I agree with. If it was simply just about working harder than you would have to tell Highlands that they must not work as hard as ST. X. I believe X has beat them the last two seasons. And I don't believe that X outworks the coaching staff or supporters of Highlands.

 

I think this issue is one that has no good answer. Anyway you fall, a good number of kids are/will suffer.

 

I will say that while LC and the others do put a good amount of resources, time and effort, the big difference lies with the parents who spend time, resources, effort with their kids developing LONG before they got into HS. Those players were not developed by LC but by the parents who have spend many hours on the road taking their children to leagues, tournaments, AAU and the like. I don't begrudge them that whatsoever.

 

But unfortunately in a public school setting, those parents are the rarity and not the norm. And I think that is a mindset that is behind this movement. The resources including parental support is simply not there. It is not about kicking out the privates but developing two classifications that are more similar.

 

Also, why I don't think a split at the private/public split is the way to go.

 

 

In re the point in your first para, the losses to X are simply explained by the size differential. Not work ethic. But if you don't think that coaches and kids at some schools work harder than coaches and kids at other schools, we will forever disagree. I know it to be the case as I have been told that by coaches at other schools that used to be asst coaches at Highlands. And these are coaches at other urban schools.

 

I will admit that schools in urban areas DO have some advantages: namely, the ease of getting to and fro practices. I will admit that affluent school districts have some advantages: if the kids don't have to have summer or after school jobs to help support the family, they can practice all summer and off season, whereas poorer kids have to have jobs to help support the family.

But I think you have to admit that kids and coaches at some schools are more committed to winning and do work harder than kids and coaches at other schools

 

At the end of the day, the question I have for you is how far can we reasonably go to try to develop a true level playing field? Is it having separate classes for rural and urban schools, that are even more separated by the per capita income in those schools, that are even more separated by the number of coaches per team, that are even more separated by the amount of funds allocated by district to the sport, that are even more separated by the physical facilities available ( I think you made the good point once that there isn't even a public golf course in Pendleton Co so it is almost impossible to think that Pendleton Co's golf team will compete for a title, for that matter does Pendleton Co. High have an indoor swimming pool in the county that it can use to start a swim team?), that can be futher separated by the tradition of a school in certain programs, that can be further separated by those programs that have good feeder middle school and youth programs, etc, etc, etc.

 

I guess my point, and hopefully you agree with it, is that if you really want to look at every factor that enables one program to have an advantage over another program and use those factors to separate the schools into classes based on those advantages, we will have 200+ classes in Ky and it will become silly. At some point we have to tell our kids that life is all about overcoming others' advantages, and that there is nobility and pride in doing all that they can to overcome those advantages even if they do not. To fight the good fight, even if it lost. And lest we forget, a whole lot of kids, probably the large majority play a sport because they enjoy it, and they do not look back at their high school sports career with disgust or disappointment if they did not win state. Unfortunately I don't think a large majority of the coaches in Ky quite look at it the same way.