I didn't say anything about bans or basing regulations on looks. I just think it's possible to add accountability to the manufacturing, selling, and owning of firearms in a way that would discourage knee-jerk purchases and strongly disincentivize the illegal market. Such wouldn't end gun deaths but I think it would put a substantial dent in it and hobbyists would still be able to continue on.

 

Explain how this stops the next shooter, please. I'm confused as to how it would work. I'm not getting how putting the onus on manufacturers and dealers will regulate or stop a sick, twisted mind or a criminal intent on breaking the law. I'm seriously asking because I'm not understanding.

Can anyone explain to me why in a thread titled "shooting in a German movie theater," a country where guns are practically banned why we have gun grabbers lurking in the US? How well did the zero gun tolerance work in Germany?

Can anyone explain to me why in a thread titled "shooting in a German movie theater," a country where guns are practically banned why we have gun grabbers lurking in the US? How well did the zero gun tolerance work in Germany?

 

Stop. :stop:

 

You are 10 times more likely to die by a gun in the United States. So it does work.

Stop. :stop: You are 10 times more likely to die by a gun in the United States. So it does work.

 

Thank you for proving my point HC, you want to continue to ignore facts. As always with you and 22P, and Sci Fri, it's all about feeling safe, not being safe. The Germans felt safe in this theater.

Sticking points, as best I can tell:

 

• Folks on both sides seem to be of the opinion that a more rigorous background check process would help. Why is this not done now? Seems like this should be a front-burner issue that both sides of the aisle in all state and federal congressional bodies could work on.

 

• A big sticking point is guns falling into the hands of the mentally ill. With HIPPA laws and other doctor-patient confidentiality rules in place, how can we stop the mentally ill from obtaining guns? The last time I checked, the number of people considered to have some type of mental illness in this country was somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-14 percent. Perhaps the biggest sticking point.

 

• Some have suggested using federal no-fly lists and terrorist lists as a red flag for gun purchases, but others have reservations because of concerns about how said lists are curated, and about how one should go about challenging their names being on said lists. It runs into obvious justice system problems such as where the burden of proof lies, and why should someone not actually charged with a crime have to spend a whole bunch of legal fees to challenge the feds. How can this be fixed?

 

I'm leaving out sticking points such as "semi-automatic" and "assault" and other silly non-starters. Those against guns are scared of them in general, and no amount of explanation from gun experts is going to matter in terms of pointing out the nuances between different types of guns and ammunition, and what they do, so it's pretty pointless. The best thing for this argument, in terms of finding actual solutions to our country's problems, is to avoid getting into that particular tit-for-tat where everyone gets to feel smug about themselves and nobody really accomplishes anything.

Thank you for proving my point HC, you want to continue to ignore facts. As always with you and 22P, and Sci Fri, it's all about feeling safe, not being safe. The Germans felt safe in this theater.

 

Germans are 10 times safer than you or me, so it is about being safe and not just feeling safe.

 

To ignore that is ignoring the facts.

Stop. :stop:

 

You are 10 times more likely to die by a gun in the United States. So it does work.

 

Is an AR-15 or an Uzi more deadly? Which would do more damage in a mass shooting, especially by someone well armed with ammo and proficient in it's use?

Thank you for proving my point HC, you want to continue to ignore facts. As always with you and 22P, and Sci Fri, it's all about feeling safe, not being safe. The Germans felt safe in this theater.

Here's a fact you can comment on: Which state leads the rest in terms of fewest gun deaths? No, the answer is not Kentucky. The answer is Hawaii. Hawaii's governor just signed into law three more gun-control measures this week.

 

I'm starting to see a correlation here.

 

Unlike Congress, Hawaii Takes Action On Gun Control

Here's a fact you can comment on: Which state leads the rest in terms of fewest gun deaths? No, the answer is not Kentucky. The answer is Hawaii. Hawaii's governor just signed into law three more gun-control measures this week.

 

I'm starting to see a correlation here.

 

Unlike Congress, Hawaii Takes Action On Gun Control

 

Of course it is its in the middle of knowwhere where the only way to get them on the islands is by air or sea which both go through customs.nice try though.

Is an AR-15 or an Uzi more deadly? Which would do more damage in a mass shooting, especially by someone well armed with ammo and proficient in it's use?

 

 

Uzi. Point?

Uzi. Point?

 

How many Uzis have been involved in mass shootings? Pick any full-auto, they're more efficient for killing. Since we know this is a fact, ask yourself why there weren't any mass shootings using these much more efficient "killing machines". My point? Something has changed in this country since 1986. It isn't the weapon. They haven't really changed. The problem is people. Why are we chasing our tails by targeting what obviously isn't the problem? Agenda driven perhaps?

How many Uzis have been involved in mass shootings? Pick any full-auto, they're more efficient for killing. Since we know this is a fact, ask yourself why there weren't any mass shootings using these much more efficient "killing machines". My point? Something has changed in this country since 1986. It isn't the weapon. They haven't really changed. The problem is people. Why are we chasing our tails by targeting what obviously isn't the problem? Agenda driven perhaps?

 

We agree we have a people problem. Our people are using guns irresponsibly both for homicide and suicide.

 

It's still safer in countries with stricter gun laws that really can't be argued.

We agree we have a people problem. Our people are using guns irresponsibly both for homicide and suicide.

 

It's still safer in countries with stricter gun laws that really can't be argued.

 

You can't seem to grasp the concept that all countries are different. There aren't near the guns in other countries that are in this country. Our gang problems are worse, our drug abuse problem is worse, our culture is different, we have a larger population than most if not all of those countries. Yet, despite all that, this is still the greatest country in the world.

 

So, you agree we have a people problem, yet you want to blame the gun. Makes zero sense. I'm telling you, ban and confiscate all guns and the problem doesn't go away. Why is that so hard for you and some others on here to understand?

Here's a fact you can comment on: Which state leads the rest in terms of fewest gun deaths? No, the answer is not Kentucky. The answer is Hawaii. Hawaii's governor just signed into law three more gun-control measures this week.

 

I'm starting to see a correlation here.

 

Unlike Congress, Hawaii Takes Action On Gun Control

 

The point of correlation is that these places are separate from and not a part of the contiguous United States. They don't share are history and past culture and they don't share the massive decay of our culture over the last 40-50 years.

 

Explain the latter thing I mentioned and you explain why violence is so prevalent today. Deal with the underlying issues so that people's hearts and minds are changed and the problem greatly subsides and things change for the better. Early 18th century England was decadent and society was breaking down. But something happened and over a period of time, not only was there a religious revival, but society was transformed and culture was reformed.

The point of correlation is that these places are separate from and not a part of the contiguous United States. They don't share are history and past culture and they don't share the massive decay of our culture over the last 40-50 years.

 

Explain the latter thing I mentioned and you explain why violence is so prevalent today. Deal with the underlying issues so that people's hearts and minds are changed and the problem greatly subsides and things change for the better. Early 18th century England was decadent and society was breaking down. But something happened and over a period of time, not only was there a religious revival, but society was transformed and culture was reformed.

Effectiveness of state gun-control measures has nothing to do with whether a state is bordered by another state ... or isn't. That is as dumb of an argument as "ash trays also are weapons." Is Hawaii bound by national gun laws and executive orders as is every other state? Of course. Are there gun dealers and NRA chapters in Hawaii? Of course. The question is: What lessons are to be learned from Hawaii's low rate of gun deaths?