Mary did not ascend to heaven. She was assumed. There is a big difference. The word assumption is taken from a Latin word meaning “to take up.” It is a general belief that Mary had to die first in order to be assumed bodily to heaven. For Roman Catholics, the belief in the Assumption of Mary flows immediately from the belief in her Immaculate Conception. Catholic Christians believe that if Mary was preserved from sin by the free gift of God, she would not be bound to experience the consequences of sin and death in the same way we do. Mary's assumption shows the result of this freedom from sin which is the immediate union of her whole being with her Son Jesus Christ with God at the end of her life.

It is unfortunate how poor of a job the church does in explaining Mary's role. Numerous Catholics ignorantly worship Mary rather than honor her, adore her rather than venerate her.

 

As a non-Catholic, that's the feeling I get a lot of times...but I have to be honest too and say that it can definitely sound that way from the pulpit as well and that may be where many pick it up from. Now, I'm no Catholic expert/theologian by any means, but just expressing my observations with what little interaction I have had with Catholics and Catholicism over the years.

I've never understood the negative feelings from protestants for the very act of praying to Mary.

 

I feel this is one area of Catholicism where I have very good knowledge from my upbringing.

I've never understood the negative feelings from protestants for the very act of praying to Mary.

 

I feel this is one area of Catholicism where I have very good knowledge from my upbringing.

 

Many non Catholics equate praying to Mary with worshiping her. The difference can be confusing but there is a difference. Most non Catholic churches do not believe in the Commonion of Saints so that makes it more difficult to understand.

Many non Catholics equate praying to Mary with worshiping her. The difference can be confusing but there is a difference. Most non Catholic churches do not believe in the Commonion of Saints so that makes it more difficult to understand.

I'm not sure the bolded is correct. Isn't the Apostles Creed ("communion of saints") recited on Sundays in many/most mainline Protestant churches?

 

... I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic and apostolic Church,

the communion of saints ...

I'm not sure the bolded is correct. Isn't the Apostles Creed ("communion of saints") recited on Sundays in many/most mainline Protestant churches?

 

... I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic and apostolic Church,

the communion of saints ...

 

The only one I *know* prays it is the Anglican/Episcopal church. I've been to Sunday church services in Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches and never heard the Apostle's Creed prayed at any of them. That's not to say it might not sometimes be prayed at any or all of those, but I've never witnessed it.

The only one I *know* prays it is the Anglican/Episcopal church. I've been to Sunday church services in Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches and never heard the Apostle's Creed prayed at any of them. That's not to say it might not sometimes be prayed at any or all of those, but I've never witnessed it.

A little googling reveals the Apostles Creed is recited by United Church of Christ, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists.

A little googling reveals the Apostles Creed is recited by United Church of Christ, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists.

 

I believe many of those churches recite the Nicene and/or Apostles Creed but I believe some omit the last part regarding an apostolic church and communion of saints, especially the congregationalists.

I believe many of those churches recite the Nicene and/or Apostles Creed but I believe some omit the last part regarding an apostolic church and communion of saints, especially the congregationalists.

According to the website below, congregationalists say "communion of saints." I'm not familiar with any abbreviated versions of this statement of faith. For years, my Protestant church said "holy Christian church" instead of "holy catholic church." Also, don't forget about the Athanasian Creed. We said that about once a year in church.

 

The Apostles Creed

I'm not sure the bolded is correct. Isn't the Apostles Creed ("communion of saints") recited on Sundays in many/most mainline Protestant churches?

 

... I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic and apostolic Church,

the communion of saints ...

 

Not any I have been to, and I have been in church most of my life. Never have I recited that or heard it recited in any Baptist or Christian church. Might have been in some Catholic masses I attended, but don't remember.

I believe many of those churches recite the Nicene and/or Apostles Creed but I believe some omit the last part regarding an apostolic church and communion of saints, especially the congregationalists.

 

A little googling reveals the Apostles Creed is recited by United Church of Christ, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists.

 

According to the website below, congregationalists say "communion of saints." I'm not familiar with any abbreviated versions of this statement of faith. For years, my Protestant church said "holy Christian church" instead of "holy catholic church." Also, don't forget about the Athanasian Creed. We said that about once a year in church.

 

The Apostles Creed

 

Yes, many Protestant denominations recite the Apostles' Creed, some of them every week, others occasionally. Actually, all orthodox Protestant churches believe the Aposltes' Creed without truncating the parts about the "church" and "saints." It is one of the earliest universal creeds that sought to address the heresies that were cropping up in the early centuries and so it was a good summary of faithful teaching. Also, in a time when the population was largely illiterate, it was helpful for churches to provide and easily memorized statement of faith that would protect the unsuspecting Christian from false teaching by travelling preachers. So creeds definitely had an important role to play in protecting the faithful from false teaching.

 

The two phrases under discussion here "I believe... in the holy catholic church" and "the communion of saints" should not cause any informed Protestant to wonder at whether they have just pledged belief in Roman Catholic teaching.

 

The word "catholic" simply means universal. The creed does not say "Roman Catholic Church" but catholic church. Protestants can heartily affirm this statement. We do believe the church is universal. It is world-wide and the distinctions that society makes to exclude others do not have any force in the church where all are one in Christ whether Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free, young or old (Cf. Galatians 3:28 and Acts 2:17-18). This universal church is likened to a body with many parts (limbs, eyes, feet, etc) that is united and working together in unity (1 Cor. 12:13ff). It is likened to a giant family, with one Father, one Spirit that unites us, and one Lord. So you see this church is universal and is connected together across the globe and across the centuries, whether currently alive on earth or waiting the resurrection from heaven. We are members of a universal (catholic) community of faith. This is what we affirm when we say the Apostles' Creed.

 

"Communion of saints" is related to the universality of the church. The church has no dead members. Remember, God is the God of the living not the dead. Those who have died a bodily death are still alive in the presence of the Lord and are called the Church Triumphant. Those living believers on earth are called the Church Militant. Since that which unites the members of the church to one another is the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 12:13) we are all united whether alive on earth or alive in heaven and awaiting the resurrection. "Communion" means we share in this fellowship of the saints on earth or in heaven. We still share the same Father, the same Spirit, the same Lord. This is a community of life in Christ shared among all the members of the family of God. We are brothers and sisters. The cessation of our mortal life does not end this sharing in the life of Christ enjoyed by the members of His Church. We pray for one another and carry one anothers' burdens, and minister to one another. This is communion. See 1 Cor. 14:3-5; Ephesians 4:11-16 among other Scriptures.

The point of divergence between Roman Catholic and Protestant here has to do with the accessibility of the departed saints with the living saints and the role the departed saints good deeds have in helping the living saints avoid some form of punishment upon death. Roman Catholics believe living saints can "ask" departed saints to pray for them, I suppose believing they have greater access to help than living saints do. Protestants reject that because the Bible prohibits communicating with the dead and gives no indication that those who have experienced mortal death can hear us. There is the added emphasis in Protestant teaching that we go directly to the Father through Jesus Christ assisted by the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 4:14-16; Ephesians 6:18). Therefore, the departed saints do not have greater access to God than living saints. This is what most honors our Great High Priest, Jesus.

 

But as far as affirming faith in the "communion of saints" every orthodox Protestant can heartily affirm this as Biblical truth.

 

Finally, a word about the phrase, "the apostolic church" as found in the Nicene Creed. BTW, Protestants can and do recite this creed as well, though not as often.

Revelation 21:9ff relates a vision given to the Apostle John of the Heavenly City called the New Jerusalem. It's walls have twelve foundations and on those foundations are written the names of the 12 apostles. This is a picture of the people oof God and the foundation of the church is the apostles. In Acts 2, after 3,000 converts were added to the church, it says they "continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." (Acts 2:42). This is the "faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" and which is worthy of contending for according to Jude 3.

 

In addition, Matthew 28:16-20 records the Great Commission Christ gave to his apostles and which is the commission all disciples have, but it began with the apostles. Any Protestant can affirm the "apostolic church" because it refers to the apostles' teaching and the mission given to the church by Jesus through the apostles.

 

The point of divergence with the Roman Catholic Church is that RCs also view this phrase as referring to "apostolic succession" which basically says there is an unbroken line from the present-day Pope back to Peter, whom they say was the first Pope. Protestants do not agree with this view of Peter or the papacy. What Protestants hold as essential is the teaching of the apostles and the mission of the apostles. This is all that is meant when Protestants recite the Nicene Creed. It is wholly consistent with Biblical teaching and any Protestant can given hearty assent to this truth.

 

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Not any I have been to, and I have been in church most of my life. Never have I recited that or heard it recited in any Baptist or Christian church. Might have been in some Catholic masses I attended, but don't remember.

 

Baptists tend not to recite any creed because they are afraid that it will conflict with the Protestant teaching that the Bible is the sole authority for faith and practice. Baptists do not want to seem to acknowledge Tradition in case the people begin to think that Tradition is on a par with the Bible. I think this is an unnecessary caution if one provides proper teaching in explaining the creed, its meaning, and its purpose from the early days of Christianity.

 

Christian Churches/Churches of Christ come from the restoration movement in the 19th century and so they claim to teach only New Testament Christianity and see reliance on a creed that came later than New Testament times as a violation of that principle.

 

In summary, I see no reason why Protestants should hesitate to affirm the Apostles' Creed and even recite it in their churches as a faithful summary of Apostolic Teaching when properly understood.

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Not any I have been to, and I have been in church most of my life. Never have I recited that or heard it recited in any Baptist or Christian church. Might have been in some Catholic masses I attended, but don't remember.

 

Actually did a sermon series on it once. So there's one Baptist Curch.

 

One.

Actually did a sermon series on it once. So there's one Baptist Curch.

 

One.

 

Now that is...........interesting.