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Does anyone know, personally, a 'transgender' person?

 

Does anyone know, personally, a trangender is biologically a woman but identifies as a man?

 

Are most 'transgenders', if not the vast majority, of this very small minority males 'identifying' as females?

All 3 are oppressed minorities.

All 3 hold status which a majority population belittles(d) / dehumanizes(d).

All 3 have had various forms of legislation aimed at them to disenfranchise or marginalize their position.

None of them dominate(d) popular culture like TV roles or advertising interest.

All have been / can be discriminated in their workplace for hiring, promotions, firing.

 

 

You're right. I don't see any parallels at all.

 

Racial minorities do not have to 'identify' as something else.

 

Gay community does not need to 'indentify' with something else.

 

 

If a person identified as a cat and acted as a cat - most would say they have a mental condition.

Does anyone know, personally, a 'transgender' person?

 

Does anyone know, personally, a trangender is biologically a woman but identifies as a man?

 

Are most 'transgenders', if not the vast majority, of this very small minority males 'identifying' as females?

 

About 23 years ago I had a little garage band that jammed out for the summer but never actually got out of the garage.

 

A straight friend of mine knew that I was looking for a drummer so she hooked me up with a female friend of hers that played the drums.

 

She was super nice and we had a blast. She was very tomboyish, and though at the time I never really came out to my band mates, I just figured that she was probably a lesbian.

 

I was about 28 and she was about 21. I had often wanted to come out to her as I felt that she might be craving to also come out and might need an understanding ear and/or advise, but I just never did, and at the time I wasn't sure how the guitarist and bass player would react if they found out that I was gay. That was unnecessary fear on my part because a couple years later I did come out to them and they said that they always knew, and that it was no big deal to them.

 

Anyhow about a year after the band folded my straight friend who had introduced us informed me that the little drummer girl was going through the change to become a little drummer boy.

 

Being gay myself, at the time I thought that I understood everything there was to understand about homosexuals etc...but in truth I really didn't understand or know much about transgenders, and even knee jerkingly regretted not having chatted more closely with her thinking that she was probably just a very boyish looking lesbian who had trouble facing society and felt she'd just be better off being a boy, but I was informed that she indeed had always just felt like a boy and wanted to once and for all become one. I thought that maybe I could've just helped her accept that she was a tomboyish lesbian, but apparently it was way more deeper than that with her.

 

I never saw her/him again after the band broke up nor do I know for certain if she ever went all the way with surgery, but the last I knew is that she/he was taking hormone medicine in preparation for an ultimate change.

 

Believe me I get that lots of people don't get transgenders because even as a gay guy I at one time really didn't know much about it, and couldn't say that I ever identified with what it was like to want to change my gender. There was a time that I really didn't know the difference between a transvestite and a transgender.

 

As someone who understands what it's like to have a sexual orientation by no choice of my own and to grow up in a mostly "then" unaccepting world, I get what it must be like for them, so that's got a lot to do with why I can sympathize with them.

 

As a side note, remember also that Chasity Bono made the change to become Chaz Bono, so though I don't know the numbers it seems that it certainly goes both ways, but I couldn't say if it's typically more one way than the other.

I haven't made the comparison once. And again, I understand the fears of rapes, murders, assaults etc. But there is zero evidence that allowing them in, will suddenly cause these incidents to begin occurring, or more accurately at a higher rate. But for the 80 billionth time, there are already laws that address those acts we all fear. New laws only would criminalize a transgender person using the restroom, and not make it anymore difficult for the people we fear to commit the crimes. So ultimately, transgenders end up being the target of the law, not the criminals we fear. And for the life of me, I can't understand why we only worry about our daughters. Why we aren't worried about our boys with these same "weirdo's", is just beyond me.

 

As I stated several posts ago, my issue isn't with public restrooms, mine is with school locker rooms. No teenage boy needs to be changing and showering with teen girls and visa versa.

 

This is not good for anyone.

Does anyone know, personally, a 'transgender' person?

Yes. I have a friend whom I played football with in high school, who's oldest son is transgender. My friend knew from very early on that his son was not "normal". He was very feminine, identified better with girls, preferred to play with dolls and engage in play that was more feminine, etc. My friend gave up trying to "convert" him and allowed his son to begin living as a girl when his son was 15 years old. My friend has 1 other son, and 2 daughters, who were raised the same way, and have normal gender identification.

 

Does anyone know, personally, a trangender is biologically a woman but identifies as a man?

 

I had an economics professor in college who was a female who identified as a man, and fully transitioned. Changed her name and the whole nine yards. Plus the first "famous" transgender of recent memory, was Chaz (formerly Chastity) Bono, Sonny and Cher's daughter who fully transitioned about 7 or 8 years ago.

 

Are most 'transgenders', if not the vast majority, of this very small minority males 'identifying' as females?

 

Yes. Statistically, male-females occur in 1 out of every 30,000 people. Female-male occur in roughly 1 out of every 100,000 people. So male-female transgenders are a little over 3x more likely to occur.

 

I guess my question to you would be, what do any of those questions have to do with needing laws to keep them out of the "wrong" restroom. All those questions point to minimizing/marginalizing their position in society, because "there aren't very many of them".

As I stated several posts ago, my issue isn't with public restrooms, mine is with school locker rooms. No teenage boy needs to be changing and showering with teen girls and visa versa.

 

This is not good for anyone.

 

And that's a fair and reasonable worry. However, here is how the specific case of school locker rooms is worded...

 

The DOE aims to support transgender students while also ensuring the safety and comfort of all students. The use of restrooms and locker rooms by transgender students requires schools to consider numerous factors, including, but not limited to: the transgender student’s preference; protecting student privacy; maximizing social integration of the transgender student; minimizing stigmatization of the student; ensuring equal opportunity to participate; the student’s age; and protecting the safety of the students involved.

 

A transgender student who expresses a need or desire for increased privacy should be provided with reasonable alternative arrangements. Reasonable alternative arrangements may include the use of a private area, or a separate changing schedule, or use of a single stall restroom. Any alternative arrangement should be provided in a way that protects the student’s ability to keep his or her transgender status confidential.

 

The key here, is that the DOE does acknowledge your concerns, and encourages the schools to address this situation with alternative arrangements that are suitable and work for all students. Understand that the transgender student in the "correct" locker room is not a good situation for them. Schools can simply offer more private options, or alter changing schedules to comfortably accommodate a transgender student while insuring the privacy of both the transgender student and their classmates. Nowhere does the recommendation require a school to mandate a transgender student have complete access to the locker room at the expense of the privacy of the other students. In addition these alternative areas would provide a benefit to non transgender students who are not comfortable dressing/undressing even with the same sex.

And that's a fair and reasonable worry. However, here is how the specific case of school locker rooms is worded...

 

The DOE aims to support transgender students while also ensuring the safety and comfort of all students. The use of restrooms and locker rooms by transgender students requires schools to consider numerous factors, including, but not limited to: the transgender student’s preference; protecting student privacy; maximizing social integration of the transgender student; minimizing stigmatization of the student; ensuring equal opportunity to participate; the student’s age; and protecting the safety of the students involved.

 

A transgender student who expresses a need or desire for increased privacy should be provided with reasonable alternative arrangements. Reasonable alternative arrangements may include the use of a private area, or a separate changing schedule, or use of a single stall restroom. Any alternative arrangement should be provided in a way that protects the student’s ability to keep his or her transgender status confidential.

 

The key here, is that the DOE does acknowledge your concerns, and encourages the schools to address this situation with alternative arrangements that are suitable and work for all students. Understand that the transgender student in the "correct" locker room is not a good situation for them. Schools can simply offer more private options, or alter changing schedules to comfortably accommodate a transgender student while insuring the privacy of both the transgender student and their classmates. Nowhere does the recommendation require a school to mandate a transgender student have complete access to the locker room at the expense of the privacy of the other students. In addition these alternative areas would provide a benefit to non transgender students who are not comfortable dressing/undressing even with the same sex.

 

Then Obama needs to beg Congress to appropriate the money to build or remodel facilities to ensure this.

 

This is much like Bush with No Child Left Behind. Telling school districts what to do without providing the funding to accomplish it.

 

Personally, I think society is going to Hades in a hand basket when things like this are actually becoming a top priority. We have so many other pressing issues that need to be dealt with instead of this lunacy.

I have two specific areas of problems with this whole subject.

 

1. Opening up public restrooms creates loopholes for predators in a manner that is not acceptable in the norms of society today.

 

2. Do not make transgender an issue at the pre-adolecent level - as the Administration has. Kids are already confused enough when they are young. And when they do hit adolescence there is not reason to create problematic loopholes in policy that can be taken advantage of. If we do this, the wall in the locker rooms may as well be torn down between the 'boys' and the 'girls' locker rooms. Just do it Starship Trooper style (mix-gender) everything.

 

"Identifying" with something your not does not give one protected status. It should not give one special rights or access. Sex, sexual identy, and anything related to sex and sexuality is a messy thing, especially when growing up. Lets not make it any more complex by turning traditional separation of the sexes in certain areas on its head.

About 23 years ago I had a little garage band that jammed out for the summer but never actually got out of the garage.

 

 

Thanks for a well structured response.

I have two specific areas of problems with this whole subject.

 

1. Opening up public restrooms creates loopholes for predators in a manner that is not acceptable in the norms of society today.

 

2. Do not make transgender an issue at the pre-adolecent level - as the Administration has. Kids are already confused enough when they are young. And when they do hit adolescence there is not reason to create problematic loopholes in policy that can be taken advantage of. If we do this, the wall in the locker rooms may as well be torn down between the 'boys' and the 'girls' locker rooms. Just do it Starship Trooper style (mix-gender) everything.

 

"Identifying" with something your not does not give one protected status. It should not give one special rights or access. Sex, sexual identy, and anything related to sex and sexuality is a messy thing, especially when growing up. Lets not make it any more complex by turning traditional separation of the sexes in certain areas on its head.

 

1. Everyone keeps referring to these "loopholes". Predators don't need loopholes. Criminalizing transgenders using the bathroom won't seal up any loopholes, or make these crimes any more or less likely to occur. All the laws will do is punish transgenders who currently aren't harming anyone. And no laws closes the big loophole that really does exist....crimes committed by the same sex in the correct bathroom, which no one seems to be willing to address throughout this entire discussion.

 

2. While the issue of being transgender is uncomfortable for many, science and psychologists are increasingly convinced that there is a biological component involved. Which means, most transgenders and their families realize that they are "different" at a very early age. What's the point in ignoring it in the hope that it goes away or is a phase. Ignoring it leads to many of the further psychological damage and suffering transgenders experience. As in the case of my friend and his son, his one regret was ignoring everything and trying to force his son into the "correct" gender identity which led to a very strained relationship with his son, a divorce (the boys mother recognized and became "ok" with things very early on) and other difficulties for all parties.

 

People keep saying that transgenders aren't the target of these laws. But the laws in reality only target them by criminalizing them using the restroom, and people continue to discount and minimize the issues they face by calling what they are going through a "choice", a "phase" or worse just telling them to suck it up, because there just aren't enough of them for the rest of the world to even consider what they are going through.

Racial minorities do not have to 'identify' as something else.

 

Gay community does not need to 'indentify' with something else.

 

 

If a person identified as a cat and acted as a cat - most would say they have a mental condition.

 

Ever seen a light skinned black person? Ever seen a dark skinned caucasian / latino / Italian?

 

You must have missed all the "conversion therapy" religious folks that promised they could "pray the gay away" and that alleged gay folks were just trying to get attention.

 

There were times in the past, and probably still in the more backward parts of our world, when homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. You seem to discount or marginalize gender identity issues because you can't see it or apply a test to it to make sure they aren't just "fakin' it" or so it can be properly treated & cured.

 

Again, you're on the wrong side of history. Take as long as you like clinging to your utopian views of Mayberry and Leave it to Beaver and the come along after it is socially acceptable in your circle to do so.

Ever seen a light skinned black person? Ever seen a dark skinned caucasian / latino / Italian?

 

You must have missed all the "conversion therapy" religious folks that promised they could "pray the gay away" and that alleged gay folks were just trying to get attention.

 

There were times in the past, and probably still in the more backward parts of our world, when homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. You seem to discount or marginalize gender identity issues because you can't see it or apply a test to it to make sure they aren't just "fakin' it" or so it can be properly treated & cured.

 

Again, you're on the wrong side of history. Take as long as you like clinging to your utopian views of Mayberry and Leave it to Beaver and the come along after it is socially acceptable in your circle to do so.

 

So if people indicated they indentify with being a cat - when they are not - are we going to have to put kitty litter in the bathrooms and locker rooms/shower areas?

 

Accommodating a mental irregularity at the expense of common sense lacks common sense.

 

This is not a historical cause. It irrational rationalization.

 

And to forcing this issue into schools is a serious danger. I saw where this administration is trying to enact all sorts of crazy regulations 'that can not be undone by the next administration'. It seems this is top in their change agenda.

My last post on this stupid, but ongoing dangerous, subject.

 

Enjoy your transgender bathrooms. We just lost America. | NewBostonPost

All of these "Liberal, Tolerance, PC" type terms. What it all should really come down to is whatever Gender ... Male / Female is printed on the person's birth certificate.

What bothers me even more is that a person be they a man or woman even want another bathroom or to question what their gender is. Geez ...even if one may feel/relate to different that doesn't change them being either male or a female. Look up your birth certificate, that's what you are regardless if you want to be or not. Except for the "spiritual" rebirth, a human is only born once and a spiritual rebirth has absolutely nothing to do with a persons gender.

 

I sum it up in a way that a friend of mine did ..... 7 1/2 of Obama and we don't even know what bathroom to use. :ohbrother: I'm done here. :lol2: