Top Twenty-Five Stories Proving Target's Pro-Transgender Bathroom Policy Is Dangerous to Women and Children - Breitbart

 

 

How's that for all you claiming its the boogyman who does not exist? That it's fear mongering. Do I need to keep posting cases or do you get that this loophole will be used to attack women. I don't know what the answer is for the transgenders bathroom problem. What I do know is that real attacks over hurt feelings is not even a conversation unless you are insane.

Top Twenty-Five Stories Proving Target's Pro-Transgender Bathroom Policy Is Dangerous to Women and Children - Breitbart

 

 

How's that for all you claiming its the boogyman who does not exist? That it's fear mongering. Do I need to keep posting cases or do you get that this loophole will be used to attack women. I don't know what the answer is for the transgenders bathroom problem. What I do know is that real attacks over hurt feelings is not even a conversation unless you are insane.

 

Go back and read all your examples very carefully and understand exactly what happened in each situation that is described. Laws preventing transgenders from entering their bathroom choice would not have prevented any of these situations from happening. Some of the situations mentioned were of the same sex...men taping, recording, photographing other men/boys while using the correct bathroom. Some were cases of people dressing as the opposite to gain access, which can happen no law or no law without us having any idea. Some were voyeurism cases where camera's were set up in advance and have nothing to do with cross dressing, or following someone in, and didn't require anyone gaining special access because they claim to be transgender. A few mention incidents that occurred in the perp's home and/or the victim's home, where no law would ever apply. There exactly two incidents in the list where the perp claimed to be transgender. The first, in the Seattle lockeroom, no crime was committed. The second, involved a shelter, and no bathrooms were involved.

 

No one has ever said crimes don't occur. The point of contention is that it's not transgenders committing these crimes, and no law prevents someone from disguising themselves to gain access to commit these crimes. And as your examples show, that these types of crimes are just as often committed by people using the correct bathroom, which these access laws will never prevent. Also, your examples show that many of the crimes are managers, owners, employees, etc. can access bathrooms and set up camera's in advance, which doesn't require any special access. Unless you believe that either criminals will obey the laws, or you believe that transgenders are more prone to committing crimes, the proposed laws will have zero effect on the crimes you fear will happen....which again as you've pointed out, are occurring, while having zero to do with transgender individuals. These laws will only affect transgenders who obey them, and force them into uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous situations.

Go back and read all your examples very carefully and understand exactly what happened in each situation that is described. Laws preventing transgenders from entering their bathroom choice would not have prevented any of these situations from happening. Some of the situations mentioned were of the same sex...men taping, recording, photographing other men/boys while using the correct bathroom. Some were cases of people dressing as the opposite to gain access, which can happen no law or no law without us having any idea. Some were voyeurism cases where camera's were set up in advance and have nothing to do with cross dressing, or following someone in, and didn't require anyone gaining special access because they claim to be transgender. A few mention incidents that occurred in the perp's home and/or the victim's home, where no law would ever apply. There exactly two incidents in the list where the perp claimed to be transgender. The first, in the Seattle lockeroom, no crime was committed. The second, involved a shelter, and no bathrooms were involved.

 

No one has ever said crimes don't occur. The point of contention is that it's not transgenders committing these crimes, and no law prevents someone from disguising themselves to gain access to commit these crimes. And as your examples show, that these types of crimes are just as often committed by people using the correct bathroom, which these access laws will never prevent. Also, your examples show that many of the crimes are managers, owners, employees, etc. can access bathrooms and set up camera's in advance, which doesn't require any special access. Unless you believe that either criminals will obey the laws, or you believe that transgenders are more prone to committing crimes, the proposed laws will have zero effect on the crimes you fear will happen....which again as you've pointed out, are occurring, while having zero to do with transgender individuals. These laws will only affect transgenders who obey them, and force them into uncomfortable, and possibly dangerous situations.

 

How many times does it need to be said it's not about transgenders. It's about making it even easier for the bad guys who you said don't exist to get access. It's already happening and you want to make it even easier. We make laws to try to keep crime from happening, not to assist the commition of them. You dont give men the keys to the womens room. You appear educated and smart, why can you not see the problem?

How many times does it need to be said it's not about transgenders. It's about making it even easier for the bad guys who you said don't exist to get access. It's already happening and you want to make it even easier. We make laws to try to keep crime from happening, not to assist the commition of them. You dont give men the keys to the womens room. You appear educated and smart, why can you not see the problem?

 

I don't see how it can get any easier.... laws or no laws. None of your examples provide proof that the laws would make it easier, or that "pretending" to be transgender is a free ticket to gain access and commit crimes. None of these crimes were a result of men having keys to the womens room (although some are related to men having keys to the men's room, which again, everyone seems to ignore) And more than a few of your examples point out the no law addresses the fact that these many bathroom crimes are committed by men using the men's room, which the laws will never address.

 

I'm not saying these crimes don't happen. I'm saying that letting a transgender person in is not going to make these crimes any more likely to happen. Preventing a transgender from going in, doesn't prevent a sex offender from going in under ANY circumstance. Would the laws stop the employee from setting up a camera pre store opening? Would laws prevent a guy from sneaking in when no one is looking, and hiding in a stall? Would a law prevent a man from taping another boy or another man in the men's room? Would laws prevent a guy from putting on a wig, fake breasts etc and sneaking in? Would laws prevent guys from just walking in period? Clearly, at least in all of the examples you posted (all but two of which have NOTHING to do with transgenders, and only 1 of the two which involved a bathroom), the answer is no. If any law could prevent any of the 30 or so cases you posted, I'd be all ears, and completely on board. The only thing the laws preventing transgenders from using the restroom of their choice is to criminalize transgenders using the bathroom the identify with. Zero effect on criminals and their intentions.

I don't see how it can't get any easier.... laws or no laws. None of your examples provide proof that the laws would make it easier, or that "pretending" to be transgender is a free ticket to gain access and commit crimes. And more than a few of your examples point out the no law addresses the fact that these many bathroom crimes are committed by men using the men's room, which the laws will never address.

 

I'm not saying these crimes don't happen. I'm saying that letting a transgender person in is not going to make these crimes anymore likely to happen. Preventing a transgender from going in, doesn't prevent a sex offender from going in. Would the laws stop the employee from setting up a camera pre store opening? Would laws prevent a guy from sneaking in when no one is looking, and hiding in a stall? Would a law prevent a man from taping another boy or another man in the men's room? Would laws prevent a guy from putting on a wig, fake breasts etc and sneaking in? Clearly, at least in all of the examples you posted (all but two of which have NOTHING to do with transgenders, and only 1 of which involved a bathroom), the answer is no. If any law could prevent any of the 30 or so cases you posted, I'd be all ears, and completely on board. The only thing the laws preventing transgenders from using the restroom of their choice prevent, is transgenders using the restroom. Zero effect on criminals and their intentions.

 

You dont get it even when given examples. Bloods on your head. Your an excuse maker and your actions are no better than the rapist themselves. Enjoy your new friends.

You dont get it even when given examples. Bloods on your head.

 

OK...explain to me how these laws affect and prevent a man from taping/photographing boys in the men's room. Explain how it prevents a guy from dressing up and sneaking in, hiding in a stall and waiting to take pictures? Explain how it prevents a guy from simply sneaking in while no one is looking? How does it prevent someone from setting up a camera in a private bathroom? How do laws prevent an employee from installing a camera before or after hours? How do transgenders even factor into all but 2 of the situations you posted?

 

You've done a fine job of highlighting the fact that crimes DO occur in public bathrooms. However, only two of the examples are related to the issue of allowing transgenders in bathrooms. One no crime was committed. The other had nothing to do with a bathroom. Show me how new laws prevent these crimes from happening AND that the crimes are related to transgenders, and I'm on board. I'll get it if you show me some relevant examples that support your argument. I promise. I'm not trying to be obtuse....

OK...explain to me how these laws affect and prevent a man from taping/photographing boys in the men's room. Explain how it prevents a guy from dressing up and sneaking in, hiding in a stall and waiting to take pictures? Explain how it prevents a guy from simply sneaking in while no one is looking? How does it prevent someone from setting up a camera in a private bathroom? How do laws prevent an employee from installing a camera before or after hours? How do transgenders even factor into all but 2 of the situations you posted?

 

You've done a fine job of highlighting the fact that crimes DO occur in public bathrooms. However, only two of the examples are related to the issue of allowing transgenders in bathrooms. One no crime was committed. The other had nothing to do with a bathroom. Show me how new laws prevent these crimes from happening AND that the crimes are related to transgenders, and I'm on board. I'll get it if you show me some relevant examples that support your argument. I promise. I'm not trying to be obtuse....

 

I don't need to explain anything, you can't be that stupid. Why don't you explain how not trying to stop it by removing laws make it a better situation. If you use the word transgender again I will have to assume you are not capable of continuing this conversation and you are a party line moron, because I've said in like 6 different post we are not saying that transgenderes will attack but how deviant men will expliot the wide open access you will create. If it happens now it will only get worse by removing laws. And you realize you are making the arguement against every piece of control legislation liberals try to enact. Good job!

You dont get it even when given examples. Bloods on your head. Your an excuse maker and your actions are no better than the rapist themselves. Enjoy your new friends.

 

Dude, rjs4470 thoroughly, concisely, and clearly shot holes in everything that you've presented here that you considered to be brilliant examples to prove your stance, while they have only helped to prove what he has been saying all along.

 

No matter how many ways he's attempted to explain, you turn his words around and try to misquote him to indicate that he's saying things that he's not even saying.

 

He's obviously NOT trying to say that bad things don't happen, nor is he trying to protect, or enable sex offenders.

 

When he makes a valid point, you tend to rebut it by ignoring it, and then insinuate that he has said something that he hadn't

 

Anyone with an ounce of logic can see that your debate tactics are shallow while his have been solid throughout.

 

Your knee jerk feelings towards this topic have you thinking that your view is the only one that makes any sense, and any view that counters that would deem someone as brain dead.

 

You're frustrated because the examples that you've presented are not proving what you had hoped they would, and since he's made that all too clear, you resort to this type of nonsense as your response when you're cornered with no where else to turn in the face of logic.

 

Your understandable and justifiable fears have you considering that your reaction is based on common sense. Your reaction is indeed common, but the sense part appears to elude you.

 

So at this point will you continue down the same illogical debate path, or are you capable of acknowledging a valid point? Will your need to be "right" trump your ability to surrender and acknowledge clearer sound and logical thinking?

Dude, rjs4470 thoroughly, concisely, and clearly shot holes in everything that you've presented here that you considered to be brilliant examples to prove your stance, while they have only helped to prove what he has been saying all along.

 

No matter how many ways he's attempted to explain, you turn his words around and try to misquote him to indicate that he's saying things that he's not even saying.

 

He's obviously NOT trying to say that bad things don't happen, nor is he trying to protect, or enable sex offenders.

 

When he makes a valid point, you tend to rebut it by ignoring it, and then insinuate that he has said something that he hadn't

 

Anyone with an ounce of logic can see that your debate tactics are shallow while his have been solid throughout.

 

Your knee jerk feelings towards this topic have you thinking that your view is the only one that makes any sense, and any view that counters that would deem someone as brain dead.

 

You're frustrated because the examples that you've presented are not proving what you had hoped they would, and since he's made that all too clear, you resort to this type of nonsense as your response when you're cornered with no where else to turn in the face of logic.

 

Your understandable and justifiable fears have you considering that your reaction is based on common sense. Your reaction is indeed common, but the sense part appears to elude you.

 

So at this point will you continue down the same illogical debate path, or are you capable of acknowledging a valid point? Will your need to be "right" trump your ability to surrender and acknowledge clearer sound and logical thinking?

 

It's not that complicated. Transgenders don't attack people. Deviant men do. They do now. How does making a law to allow transgenders to use any restroom that will also allow deviant men to do so also but only now with no legal recourse not exasperate the issue further? Just answer the last question.

Since the measure for transgenders is a feel good measure and the one for women has real safety implications tied to it, you can only sensibly side with the safety of people instead of a law that while makes one in a million feel better but endangers millions. There is no hole to shoot in that. There are thousands and thousands more sex offenders running around in public than transgenders and that's just the ones that have been caught. Maybe we should try to outlaw concealed carry so women cannot protect thereselves against a would be attacker that you let into the bathroom with your bleeding heart. How can you guys look at women with a straight face and say that you care about them their children and their safety.

Edited May 16, 201610 yr by Fear the Nation

This law is pointless, it serves no purpose.

 

I find it ironic that most on here in support of this law are also the same that clamor on about limited government (which I absolutely am on board with). This law is every bit as useless as the "Gun-Free Zones". As the rhetoric goes with those, they aren't going to actually stop any crimes from occurring because those that are going to commit the crimes are criminals and will bring guns in regardless. So to, in this situation will those who are looking to commit these sick crimes. You think a guy who wants to molest a little girl is going to walk up to the women's room and think "oh yeah, there's a law that says I can't go in here", and stop? Of course not. They're still going to commit a crime if that's their intention. The only people this is hindering or hurting, regardless of how small a percentage it is, are innocent law-abiding citizens.

If any law could prevent any of the 30 or so cases you posted, I'd be all ears, and completely on board. The only thing the laws preventing transgenders from using the restroom of their choice is to criminalize transgenders using the bathroom the identify with. Zero effect on criminals and their intentions.

 

I hope you are not a gun control advocate because you just made one hell of a case against gun control!

How many times does it need to be said it's not about transgenders. It's about making it even easier for the bad guys who you said don't exist to get access. It's already happening and you want to make it even easier. We make laws to try to keep crime from happening, not to assist the commition of them. You dont give men the keys to the womens room. You appear educated and smart, why can you not see the problem?

 

Again, I'm not trying to be obtuse. But the reason I keep mentioning transgenders is not to be an obstinate jerk. It's because the only thing these law criminalize, is transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. These laws do not affect those who commit crimes in bathrooms. There are already laws in place to address people that do bad things to people in bathrooms. Sneak into a bathroom and take pictures of someone...already illegal. Attack a women or little girl in any bathroom...already illegal. And those things (as You've already pointed out in your 30 examples) are already illegal, and still happen and get dealt with by the law when they do happen (again as your examples prove). Yet what you and others are proposing, is that by making it illegal for a Transgender person to use the "wrong bathroom", we will somehow reduce, prevent or eliminate these crimes from happening. The fact is, while these crimes have nothing to do with transgenders (they aren't the ones committing the crimes which even you have said ad nauseam throughout this thread), the end result is their ability to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in would now be illegal and punishable by law. Think about that...we would be making it illegal to use the bathroom. Not to mention the enforcement of such a law, would be an absolute nightmare...would we post guards at the door or request ID's upon entry or exit?? And Think about this as well...there are people that would have to show ID's just to use the bathroom..is that not insane??

 

I get it. I'm just as scared of the bad guys as you are. It's why I never let my kids enter ANY public bathroom alone. It's why I hustled my daughter into and out of stalls in the men's room when she was a toddler...because I was more scared of her alone in the ladies room with lord knows who. And why I would wait right outside the ladies for her as she got older. It's why I never let my boys go in public restrooms alone. I know those people are out there, and that there are more than you or I could ever imagine. But criminalizing an innocent transgender person using the bathroom doesn't get rid of, prevent or eliminate bathroom crimes from happening. Because 99.9999% of those crimes have nothing to do with a transgender person being in there or not.

Again, I'm not trying to be obtuse. But the reason I keep mentioning transgenders is not to be an obstinate jerk. It's because the only thing these law criminalize, is transgenders using the bathroom they identify with. These laws do not affect those who commit crimes in bathrooms. There are already laws in place to address people that do bad things to people in bathrooms. Sneak into a bathroom and take pictures of someone...already illegal. Attack a women or little girl in any bathroom...already illegal. And those things (as You've already pointed out in your 30 examples) are already illegal, and still happen and get dealt with by the law when they do happen (again as your examples prove). Yet what you and others are proposing, is that by making it illegal for a Transgender person to use the "wrong bathroom", we will somehow reduce, prevent or eliminate these crimes from happening. The fact is, while these crimes have nothing to do with transgenders (they aren't the ones committing the crimes which even you have said ad nauseam throughout this thread), the end result is their ability to use the bathroom they feel most comfortable in would now be illegal and punishable by law. Think about that...we would be making it illegal to use the bathroom. Not to mention the enforcement of such a law, would be an absolute nightmare...would we post guards at the door or request ID's upon entry or exit?? Think about that...there are people that would have to show ID's just to use the bathroom..is that not insane??

 

I get it. I'm just as scared of the bad guys as you are. It's why I never let my kids enter ANY public bathroom alone. It's why I hustled my daughter into and out of stalls in the men's room when she was a toddler...because I was more scared of her alone in the ladies room with lord knows who. And why I would wait right outside the ladies for her as she got older. It's why I never let my boys go in public restrooms alone. I know those people are out there, and that there are more than you or I could ever imagine. But criminalizing an innocent transgender person using the bathroom doesn't get rid of, prevent or eliminate bathroom crimes from happening. Because 99.9999% of those crimes have nothing to do with a transgender person being in there or not.

 

I don't want to criminalize behavior for transgenders. Not in any shape or form I truly believe everybody has the right to live however they want to. I'm just a firm believer that you don't fix a problem by creating others. The only answer that I can see being reasonable is that everybody has to create family bathrooms where they're not open to the public use as far as multiple people being in there that way the select few can have their privacy without being embarrassed or feeling out of place. In reality we're not that far apart on this issue. I just would err on the side of caution when it comes to women and their safety not trying to Trump somebody else's feelings but safety is my primary concern. So unless the federal government is willing to hand out funds to create an additional bathroom space I don't think there is a real answer.

FTN - I am going to take 1 more shot at this against my better judgment. Is your position accurately summarized below? I just want to make sure I understand your position before taking issue with it.

 

FTN believes that permitting (more accurately, not prohibiting) anatomically male persons into a woman's restroom creates an environment where an anatomically male person in a woman's restroom will become more accepted and where people will hesitate to object due to the law and due to being labeled a bigot.

 

FTN believes in this environment where it is not prohibited for an anatomically male person to be in a woman's restroom, deviant, male, non-transgender persons will be embolden to enter a woman's restroom more often and more freely since there are no consequences to doing so and, if questioned, that deviant, male, non-transgender person could always simply respond that "I identify as a female" and know there will be no adverse consequences.

 

Once more deviant, male, non-transgender persons enter a woman's restroom, more deviant behavior is likely to occur. Therefore, allowing transgender persons to enter restrooms of their choice rather than the gender assigned to them on their birth certificate because it may help prevent concerns on their part does not balance against increased deviant behavior in restrooms so laws should be passed to make sure people are required to use the bathroom of the gender assigned to them on their birth certificate.