^ not really, only 75 +/- a few dress....but it works out nicely. Contrary to popular belief a lot of GREAT football players, don't play, fail, parents can't pay, misbehave, don't have the heart, etc....it is special to make it 4 years, and be a starter at some time.

For this to work, Beechwood and Mayfield would have to stop playing larger schools OOD. Do you really think that will ever happen???

For this to work, Beechwood and Mayfield would have to stop playing larger schools OOD. Do you really think that will ever happen???

 

No, thats part of each teams preparation for the playoffs. Playing the larger schools gets them battle ready for the important games at the end of the year. They will continue to schedule as they always have IMO.

I don't know why playing in the class they are assigned to would cause a 50+ game winning streak to lose any of its luster. There's a strong implication in this question that maybe a Beechwood 51 game winning streak, if played strictly within the new 1A classification, should not be considered as impressive as Trinity's 50 game streak from 1988-1991. But if you look at Trinity's streak, they didn't necessarily go looking to schedule tougher opponents than they would face as part of their classification. For example, they never once played a game against an out of state opponent. They stayed within 4A, winning many games against the likes of Doss, DeSales, Holy Cross, and Valley--teams that eventually ended up in 1A, 2A, 3A based on size. Why should a team in a smaller class have to schedule much larger schools to justify its win streak?

They also beat Boone County, Waggener, Ballard and St. Xavier, who all were worthy of state championships had it not been for us. Better teams than anything 1A could ever dream of having....and Beechwood is better than anything 1A should dream of having.

So basically H is right. If anyone in a lower class wins 51 games in a row, it won't be viewed as impressive as mighty Trinity's streak. Last time I checked, state records weren't classified.

I am not a direct advocate of saying that enrollment is #1 to winning. I would rather like to see a stat with the % of boys that play. That's an argument that I would be willing to garner.

 

For example at Trinity if we have 1,440 boys and 175 in the progam, that's 12.2% of the population.....if HHS has 423 and just 12.2% played that would be 52 kids in the program...I bet they have more than that.

 

OK, playing Devil's Advocate.

 

Whether you carry 75 or 50 on the game roster, you will use maybe 30-35 in varsity games (and smaller schools use much less). Would you rather get to take your 35 from a pool of 423 or from a pool of 1440?

 

Just for fun, let's assume there is 1 good football player for every 10 boys walking the halls of any given school. And assume 20% of those don't play for whatever reason (failing, money, whatever). Then under our example, HHS would have about 34 (42 x 80%) good football players from which to build their roster and Trinity would have 115.

 

To me that is a significant difference, expecially when you consider depth and injuries.

 

But take it a step further and consider the GREAT players are more rare, maybe 1 in 100 boys. That means HHS has maybe 4-5 potentially great players walking the halls but only 3 or so will actually come out for football. But at Trinity, they would have 14+ potentially great players, of which 11 or 12 will be on the team.

 

So each team can field 30-35 good players for a game, but the difference is in the potentially GREAT players and it is significant. Numbers makes a difference.

They also beat Boone County, Waggener, Ballard and St. Xavier, who all were worthy of state championships had it not been for us. Better teams than anything 1A could ever dream of having....and Beechwood is better than anything 1A should dream of having.

 

It's all relative. Beechwood is one of the larger schools in its class, with a significant enrollment disparity from top to bottom (even after the 6A changes). Trinity is now the largest school in its class, with a significant enrollment disparity from top to bottom. And while you argue that Boone, Waggener, Ballard and St X were tough competition for the Shamrocks, apart from St X how many championships have those programs actually won? (zero). Within the new 1A alignment you also have seven-time state champ Mayfield (third on the Ky all-time wins list), three-time state champ Russellville, and Holy Cross, which has been knocking on the door for the last few years (53-10 in the last five seasons).

 

And if, at the end of the day, only a few schools end up having a virtual deadlock on the re-aligned 1A championship, tell me how that differs from the hitherto arrangement in 4A?

So basically H is right. If anyone in a lower class wins 51 games in a row, it won't be viewed as impressive as mighty Trinity's streak. Last time I checked, state records weren't classified.

Nope, IMO, it would depend on who had done it. If HHS or CCHS, or LEx Cath, many teams do it....I would be fine....but if some 1A team were to do it, especially one that has been dominant for sometime were to do it, without challenging themselves, than I would expect more to laugh at it.

For argument's sake, when Trinity won 50 straight games from 1988-91, did that accompishment lack some of the luster it would have had before the classes were expanded in 1975? Was there anyone in the Trinity program who made the comment "This record just doesn't give me the same feeling it would have if we had done it in 1972 when there were just three classes." I highly doubt it....

 

It is what it is. 50 straight is always great.

So basically H is right. If anyone in a lower class wins 51 games in a row, it won't be viewed as impressive as mighty Trinity's streak. Last time I checked, state records weren't classified.

 

Many people feel that way. Taking it to an extreme, which would be more impressive: a high school team winning 50 in a row or an NFL team winning 50 in a row?

 

But don't get too fired up, it's just our opinion.

OK, playing Devil's Advocate.

 

Whether you carry 75 or 50 on the game roster, you will use maybe 30-35 in varsity games (and smaller schools use much less). Would you rather get to take your 35 from a pool of 423 or from a pool of 1440?

 

Just for fun, let's assume there is 1 good football player for every 10 boys walking the halls of any given school. And assume 20% of those don't play for whatever reason (failing, money, whatever). Then under our example, HHS would have about 34 (42 x 80%) good football players from which to build their roster and Trinity would have 115.

 

To me that is a significant difference, expecially when you consider depth and injuries.

 

But take it a step further and consider the GREAT players are more rare, maybe 1 in 100 boys. That means HHS has maybe 4-5 potentially great players walking the halls but only 3 or so will actually come out for football. But at Trinity, they would have 14+ potentially great players, of which 11 or 12 will be on the team.

 

So each team can field 30-35 good players for a game, but the difference is in the potentially GREAT players and it is significant. Numbers makes a difference.

 

One thing that I have seen no one mention is coaching. We all know teams with lots of talent and mediocre cautious coaches, and the result is? Also we know teams with average talent but innovative inspirational coaches (eg, inspiring the guys to work in the weight room every day) who lead them to great achievements and even championships.

 

Trinity, which played its first varsity season in 1955 (with all juniors; there were no seniors in the school yet), had plenty of good guys from the gitgo when enrollment was around 300. I think in our third year of varsity competition we won state in cross country and had some fine golfers. In my graduating year, 1963, at least 10 of the seniors on the small football squad received college scholarships, albeit to smaller now D3 programs like Centre, but one went to Vanderbilt, another to Western or Eastern. Quite an achievement. And there were others who could have got scholarships if they wanted them. But our coaching was so-so. No knock, the man just did not know how to exploit the talents he had, and how to discipline them. When Jim Kennedy, who had won a state title at Flaget, arrived at Trinity in 1966 (two years after the Rocks' first perfect season, 0-9), things changed.

 

Till then, Trinity's all-time record was 47–50–5. After two poor seasons, Trinity started rolling and late in '68 passed the break-even point for good (62–61–6) and won their first title. From then on, the coaching was the deal. Trinity won with huge talent and they won with average talent (best example is 1994 when they figured out a way to beat heavily-favored but one-dimensional Boone County and Shaun Alexander).

 

Why don't we go back in Kentucky school history and start listing the coaches you would want to play for? From my era there's Tommy Harper at Manual, Charlie Kuhn at Male, Paulie Miller at Flaget. Think of the greats at Highlands, Homer Rice (who wrote a book on the veer option) and Dale Mueller. Could our list exceed 30, let's say from the 1940s to the present, when we would have some knowledge or personal observation?

 

Also, re the claim made somewhere in this thread that Trinity and St. X can draw students from all over while public schools must rely on what they are channeled from designated middle schools, please read p. 4 of the Jefferson County Public School guide to enrollment. Public school students have quite a choice.

 

http://www.jefferson.kyschools.us/Pubs/ChoicesMSHS.pdf

 

Even back in the 50s and 60s, I think anybody from anywhere in the county could attend Male. I lived in the far east end, down the street from a kid who rode the bus to Male because he wanted to play for Charlie Kuhn.

 

One last thought, when we discuss Trinity's "talent" versus that of public schools, realise the tuition is stiff but kids choose to go there. For 2013, it's $11,775. Financial aid is available, but it is only for 62.5% of each student's documented need, as certified by the Private School Aid Service, near Cleveland. In other words, if you qualify for $10,000 aid, you get only $6,250 of that. You have to make up the difference somehow.

 

https://www.psas.org/index.aspx

 

Catholic high schools' f/a process is pretty much like that for colleges.

 

There are a lot of angles to the discussion on private schools and sports. I hope I have added some good information. I have enjoyed all the comments so far.

If someone gets out and breaks the 50 game win streak by only playing those in its class (Beechwood comes to mind first)....wouldn't that take some of the luster from that as well.

I will have to repeat what others have said. Your example of Beechwood is really pretty lame. Beechwood has always played above their class when it comes to non district games. They play Covington Catholic every year and have played teams like SK etc. pretty regularly such as last year.

 

so to answer your question, if Beechwood goes on a 50 game winning streak, seeing how they play above their A class every year until district games I'd say it means a lot more than if a 6A or 5A team went on a 50 game winning streak by playing below their class a lot.

I might of missed it but I did not see a comment about T being able to pull from all over. There are a number of comments about the enrollment size and it being all males.

 

Trinity did beat teams like Boone but they played them only because they had to due to the playoffs. It wasn't like T was going out and playing those teams during the regualr season. Now granted I don't know if those teams would of played T during the regular season. Back in the late 80s early 90s we were one of the few public schools that would play T's freshman team. We played them twice every year as freshman so I know T had issues at times getting games from time to time.

 

The T team that beat Boone was a better than average team. Whoever put Boone as a huge favorite in that game needed to see them play more. I think T scored once on a fake screen pass.

 

If you win more than 50 games in a row then you earned it.

Have no idea....it's fun to play the devil's advocate when you want to be on the other side of the argument....fact is we were beating St. Xavier at the time, who I believe was bigger, maybe another. I am not a direct advocate of saying that enrollment is #1 to winning. I would rather like to see a stat with the % of boys that play. That's an argument that I would be willing to garner.

 

For example at Trinity if we have 1,440 boys and 175 in the progam, that's 12.2% of the population.....if HHS has 423 and just 12.2% played that would be 52 kids in the program...I bet they have more than that.

 

Now tell us within those 175, how many live, lets say, within 10 miles of campus.