So, in your opinion, only Catholics will get the golden ticket to salvation?? No Methodists, Baptists, Lutheran etc, need apply??

 

Apparently. :ohbrother:

I disagree. Protestants have been more active in evangelizing most areas of the world than Catholics.

 

Really? For the most part Protestant missions didn't begin until the late 18th century in any organized way.

 

So we discount the centuries of Catholic Mission Endeavors prior to the Reformation and the Mission Societies of the last 300 years?

No denomination or organization will get anyone to Heaven if the Bible is correct. One way and one way only, that's to accept Jesus in your heart, repent of your sins ( look up repent in dictionary) confess that to men publically. That's the start to what the Bible teaches. Any other way Jesus says will not work. Jesus clearly taught his word would divide even familys.

 

Luke 12:51 Jesus says “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. “They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

With all the controversy lately over Gay Marriage I pose this question to all: What if the Bible is 100% correct?

 

What if there comes a Judgement day and all the things God calls an abomination are judged based on what the Bible says?

 

What if Judgement day comes and the Bible is 100% correct about Jesus being the only way to Heaven.

 

What if there is God and the Bible is 100% his word? Where will you stand?

 

This is how John Wesley answered this question. He was an Anglican priest, leader of the Great Awakening on the European side of the Atlantic (along with Whitefield), and founder of the Methodist church in America. He earnestly sought to know how to live eternally in the presence of God. Here's his advice.

 

To candid, reasonable men, I am not afraid to lay open what have been the inmost thoughts of my heart. I have thought, I am a creature of a day, passing through life as an arrow through the air. I am a spirit come from God, and returning to God: just hovering over the great gulf; till, a few moments hence, I am no more seen; I drop into an unchangeable eternity! I want to know one thing the way to heaven; how to land safe on that happy shore. God Himself has condescended to teach the way; for this very end He came from heaven. He hath written it down in a book. O give me that book! At any price, give me the book of God! I have it: here is knowledge enough for me. Let me be "homo unius libri" (Latin for 'a man of one book').

Just for kicks, and for the sake of comparison, fundamentalists Christians tend to speak in a certain religious vernacular with regard to their belief in the Bible and its messages within, and I thought that some here, and especially even some of the more devout Christians might be interested on what the typical religious vernacular might sound like coming from a Muslim describing their take on the Bible and the Qur'an, and their understanding of the truth.

 

I found it to be an interesting read, and perhaps some of you might also. It's interesting to compare those who are firm believers in their religion with the firm believers of other religions...

 

The original, unchanged revelations given to Abraham and other prophets(like Moses and Jesus ) reaching back to Adam all came from the One True God(The Creator). This common origin explains their similarities in many beliefs and values

 

 

However, over time the teachings of the various religions, due to a variety of reasons, have become distorted and mixed with made-man ideas.

 

 

The last Prophet and Messenger of God, Muhammad , who is a direct descendant of Abraham through his first born son, Ishmael, was sent with the Last Guidance, Revelation and Testament, the Holy Qur'an(koran) to amend and correct the changes and corruption made to the the "Torah" which was sent to Moses and theTrue Gospel of Jesus.To say the truth ,God preserved all the other Holy Books plainly by preserving His Last Book the Holy Qur'an(koran)which contains the right and the truth of all that was changed in those other Books.

 

 

This is why this last Revelation which was sent 1423 years ago has remained unchanged, not even a word or a letter has been altered.

 

 

There is not even one word of difference between two Arabic Qur'ans, anywhere in the world. There has been no disagreements in history among Muslims as to what should and should not be in the Qur'an. However, in the case of the Bible, even the most ancient manuscripts conflict with one another so that no two are identical. Footnotes in all modern versions of the Bible prove this fact.

 

 

These revisions serve as concrete proofs that all the Biblical books are not at all divinely inspired. This is because it is beyond man's ability to correct the work of his Creator, who alone is Almighty and perfect

 

 

 

It was only natural for Almighty God to preserve the scripture revealed to Prophet Muhammad, because he was the last Prophet and Final Messenger of God.

 

 

Islam teaches us that we must pray directly to God without an intermediary and no soul can bear the burden of another and that the nature of humanity is good, and we did not inherit sin from Adam. Each soul comes into being free of sin.in Islam there are no priests or clergy -- each worshipper, man or woman, has a direct relationship with their Merciful Creator -- Almighty God. Since God is the Owner and Sustainer of everything, as well as the only one who can provide true and complete forgiveness, it is completely futile to try to approach Him through anyone else.

 

 

The oneness and universality of God's message requires that people accept all the messengers of God. Rejecting one of them amounts to rejecting them all. The Jews reject Jesus's mission and Muhammad's mission; the Christians reject Muhammad's mission; whereas the Muslims accept them all, but reject incorrect historical interpretations and human elements in these missions.

 

 

As the Qur'an is the final revelation and Muhammad is the final prophet, humanity is obligated to accept it: "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost all spiritual good" (3:86).

 

 

The Final Prophet Muhammad said: "Whoever believes there is no god but God, alone without partner, that Muhammad is His messenger, that Jesus is messenger of God, and that Paradise and Hell are true, shall be received by God into Heaven."

 

 

you can do that now as you are reading these lines is to pronounce the two confirmations and attestations of faith, here it is

 

 

 

 

I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD WORTHY OF WORSHIP EXCEPT ALLAH ( ARABIC WORD MEANS ONE GOD-THE CREATOR). AND I BEAR WITNESS THAT MUHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND MESSENGER. I BEAR WITNESS THAT JESUS IS HIS SERVANT AND MESSENGER.

 

 

 

The right picture of lslam is conveyed in the Qur'an, which is exemplified by Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. The reality is that it is not fair to judge a religion by the actions of its followers alone because there are good and bad followers in every religion. The correct thing to do is to judge a religion by its documented revelation from God and the prophet who brought that revelation.

 

I encourage Christians and other religions to learn about Islam from Muslim sources and The Basis Of The Muslim Belief and not rely on second hand information which in many cases is distorted or contains a deep seated anti Muslim agenda. This is indeed a more scholarly approach

 

 

Your brother in humanity

Time to relate my favorite Lewis Grizzard joke, as best I can remember it.

 

Three ministers and their wives were on a camping trip when they were involved in a terrible accident. At the gates of Heaven, St. Peter looked at the first minister, then at his book.

 

"You cannot enter. You had lust for money in your heart". "But I never stole a penny". replied the minister. "It doesn't matter. You lusted for money in your heart, and one of the manifestations of that lust is that you married a woman named Penny. You cannot enter."

 

St. Peter then looked at the second minister, then at his book. "You cannot enter. You had lust for alcohol in your heart." "But I never drank a drop", replied the minister. "It doesn't matter. You lusted for alcohol in your heart, and one of the manifestations of that lust is that you married a woman named Sherry. You cannot enter."

 

The third minister looked at his wife and said, "Hell, Fanny. We don't have a chance".

^ And Fanny replied, "What's this 'We' stuff?" :sneaky:

 

B-Ball-Fan; Christianity and Islam, have much in common. There are also essential differences. There is much to appreciate in each, but as can been gleaned by the little bit you shared in your post, they both cannot be right. They can both be wrong, but they cannot both be right. That actually is the case with a comparison of any two religions. There are always exclusive claims.

 

There is a respectful and scholarly treatment of those similarities and differences written for laity by Timothy George called, Is the God of Muhammad the Father of Jesus? . This is from a Christian perspective. This would be something to read in addition to your suggestion to read scholarly Muslim accounts of their own religion.

^ And Fanny replied, "What's this 'We' stuff?" :sneaky:

 

B-Ball-Fan; Christianity and Islam, have much in common. There are also essential differences. There is much to appreciate in each, but as can been gleaned by the little bit you shared in your post, they both cannot be right. They can both be wrong, but they cannot both be right. That actually is the case with a comparison of any two religions. There are always exclusive claims.

 

There is a respectful and scholarly treatment of those similarities and differences written for laity by Timothy George called, Is the God of Muhammad the Father of Jesus? . This is from a Christian perspective. This would be something to read in addition to your suggestion to read scholarly Muslim accounts of their own religion.

 

This "more scholarly approach" comment was not my suggestion as it was within the text that I was sharing from a Muslim's perspective. Nothing beyond the first two paragraphs of my post are my words. I'm not claiming to be apart of either religion, or suggesting a conversion to either.

 

My intent was to show comparisons of perspective, and hopefully demonstrate the tendency for one religion to be "so sure" just as another religion is "so sure",while both tend to convey that theirs is the one that needs to be honored, thinking that no matter which religion you have been exposed to, you should follow the "one true religion".

 

So if one was raised in either religion, expecting others raised in other religions to convert, perhaps could step back momentarily to observe the similarities in what they consider to be required in following "The truth", and how their own resistance at conversion is similar to others resistance at conversion.

 

If one is not so deeply affected by the indoctrination of either, it's not too hard to see that those who are, are perfectly content from their perspective to see that the teachings they were raised with are considered to be the truth, and for them the only teachings worthy of them following, therefore presenting an impasse from either in similar fashion.

 

If they can see in themselves how they'd be resistant to convert, no matter how devout, is it really so difficult for them to see that others following other religions are identical with their devoutation toward their teachings and the complexities, internal battle, confusion, and resistance with regards towards conversion?

You should read all the Quran B Ball Fan. Then read the Bible. You will see that while it has one true God its nothing like Christianity.

This "more scholarly approach" comment was not my suggestion as it was within the text that I was sharing from a Muslim's perspective. Nothing beyond the first two paragraphs of my post are my words. I'm not claiming to be apart of either religion, or suggesting a conversion to either.

 

My intent was to show comparisons of perspective, and hopefully demonstrate the tendency for one religion to be "so sure" just as another religion is "so sure",while both tend to convey that theirs is the one that needs to be honored, thinking that no matter which religion you have been exposed to, you should follow the "one true religion".

 

So if one was raised in either religion, expecting others raised in other religions to convert, perhaps could step back momentarily to observe the similarities in what they consider to be required in following "The truth", and how their own resistance at conversion is similar to others resistance at conversion.

 

If one is not so deeply affected by the indoctrination of either, it's not too hard to see that those who are, are perfectly content from their perspective to see that the teachings they were raised with are considered to be the truth, and for them the only teachings worthy of them following, therefore presenting an impasse from either in similar fashion.

 

If they can see in themselves how they'd be resistant to convert, no matter how devout, is it really so difficult for them to see that others following other religions are identical with their devoutation toward their teachings and the complexities, internal battle, confusion, and resistance with regards towards conversion?

 

Okay, I understand what you are saying. And your perspective is correct. I certainly don't think it is easy for anyone to convert.

 

Anyone familiar with the missionary movement knows that it is not easy to convert others and anyone who has tried to talk with one's relatives who do not share his or her religious convictions knows this as well. In fact, I believe it is impossible, apart from the power of God, but that is another subject.

 

Your post is a good reminder to us all that religious convictions, of whatever stripe, are usually cherished beliefs that add meaning and significance to one's life. It is not a good approach to begin a conversation with someone without first having a genuine respect for that person and her or his deeply held convictions. This would also be true of approaching someone who has no religious faith and has come to that position after giving it much thought. There is always a lot to be learned from people who have a different perspective, experience, and convictions.

 

Seeking a genuine friendship is the best approach. Remaining friends even if one's ideas are rejected is the test of whether one was genuine in offering friendship or was just targeting someone for conversion.

You should read all the Quran B Ball Fan. Then read the Bible. You will see that while it has one true God its nothing like Christianity.

 

Just in case you thought that I was comparing similarities of religions, I was not. I was comparing the similarities in the devoted approach of followers within either religion. I realize that this could possibly be mistaken with the length of my posts, but I'll keep this one short and simple too emphasize more specifically that point.

Many Christians believe non-Christians who have never heard of Christ and his teachings have a mechanism to get to Heaven. With that, the only SURE way to do it is through Jesus Christ...and a SURE way to hell is to have heard the word, know of Christ, and reject him.

 

Here is some interesting reading.

 

What about people who have never heard of Christ? - Faith Facts

 

God is fair as well as just. We are confident, for example, that the Old Testament patriarchs, who lived by faith in God and his covenantal promises before Jesus' earthly ministry, are in heaven. So certainly some people have gotten to heaven without knowing Jesus in the personal way that the New Testament speaks of. Ultimately, only God can judge as only He knows the individual's heart. We hold out hope that, for those who have not heard but have not rejected God, for those who have been misinformed, or those who are unable to understand (children, mentally ill, etc) may be pardoned by a just God.

 

Certainly, the Bible does not teach "universalism." Universalism is the idea that everyone gets to heaven.

 

The Bible clearly teaches that the only certain way to heaven is through Jesus (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). We are confident that God will not hold anyone accountable for any knowledge he did not receive. At the same time, the Bible emphatically states that Christ is the only sure way to salvation. Anyone who has heard of the saving grace of Jesus, and rejects it, would be thumbing his nose at God (John 3:36).

The more some people repeat and digest these type of Biblical ideals, the more they drive it into their minds to the point they believe it without doubt or question to be the truth.

 

On the other hand, the more some others hear it after being raised repeatedly hearing it, but all along questioning it for any sense of realism, the more and more it sounds to be ever so evidently man made self serving ideals that in no way shape or form could possibly have been written by anyone who knows for sure if there's a deity, and what that deity requires of us. For humans to say it's the inspired word of God only opens up more questions for these types of people to ponder how the humans who said so know for sure.

 

What actually is the truth?

 

No one knows, however many are content with taking these words as being such without question, while to others they can't help but to question.

 

Why is this I wonder?

 

Some it seems are conditioned to believe what they are told without question, while others are conditioned to question what they are told without hesitation.

 

Why is this?

I disagree. Protestants have been more active in evangelizing most areas of the world than Catholics.

 

The first Church of Christ was the Universal Church, "On this rock I build my Church". Whoever is not Catholic, I cannot say I am sorry, they should have known there is only one way to salvation, it's no ones fault but their own that they parted ways with the Church.

I disagree. Protestants have been more active in evangelizing most areas of the world than Catholics.

 

And for the record, I do not believe in what I said in my last two post, but it is interesting how you basically condemn people who are not Christian, who have not been evangelized, yet when the tables are turned you get defensive. So now you are basically saying that it's the Protestants that have the Golden Ticket. I know that you will attempt to dispute this, but that is basically what you said. And the little face palm on #76 is exactly what people are thinking when they see many of your posts in here.