July 26, 201511 yr Author In all seriousness. What I've never been able to understand is the notion that if we just had more guns (twice as many, ten times as many, whatever the factor), we would all be much safer and those alarming statistics would take a turn for the better. Especially if those guns were semiautomatic or automatic in nature. No one has been able (and it's probably because I'm just dense) been able to get that through my thick skull. Someone brought up automobiles and the millions of lives (well, thousands, at any rate) lost in vehicle accidents. If we simply had twice as many vehicles or ten times as many vehicles in circulation - faster and more powerful vehicles - should we see a corresponding decrease in these fatalities? Everybody registers cars and pays insurance too. Do we want to spread that same ideology to guns? No, ok, stop comparing.
July 26, 201511 yr Everybody registers cars and pays insurance too. Do we want to spread that same ideology to guns? No, ok, stop comparing. Actually that might be an interesting topic. Firearm insurance for "assault" as you describe them weapons. Either way it is perfectly relevant, as a car capable of high speeds is not necessary nor is a large pickup unless you are a contractor or farmer. And given the carbon emissions that such inefficient vehicles release you could daresay that they are far more dangerous than firearms as they threaten the biosphere instead of just a couple people.
July 26, 201511 yr In all seriousness. What I've never been able to understand is the notion that if we just had more guns (twice as many, ten times as many, whatever the factor), we would all be much safer and those alarming statistics would take a turn for the better. Especially if those guns were semiautomatic or automatic in nature. No one has been able (and it's probably because I'm just dense) been able to get that through my thick skull. Someone brought up automobiles and the millions of lives (well, thousands, at any rate) lost in vehicle accidents. If we simply had twice as many vehicles or ten times as many vehicles in circulation - faster and more powerful vehicles - should we see a corresponding decrease in these fatalities? Your question about the logic of more guns made me think about Ozzy Osbourne's 1986 song from his "The Ultimate Sin" release "Thank God For The Bomb". When first released it was a startling take and often misunderstood commentary that because of the Bomb, there is somehow a stalemate among nations, and that its ever present threat would make the fear of total annihilation make leaders back down, and therefore lead to keeping the peace. I got what he was saying, but idealistically I could never completely accept the logic, but in ways I guess that he does have a point. I'm assuming by the same token the same idea here with guns is that bad folks thinking of using a gun might think again if they thought that others too could counter them with their same poison. I don't completely buy that and worry that the more guns circulating, the more chance for problems. The whole gun thing is a double edged sword where many might wish they didn't exist in our culture, however I know personally that if I was out in public and a freak went nuts with a gun that I'd be thankful if a conceal carry guy stepped up to stop the craziness. Whereas I typically approach it idealistically and would hope that it didn't have to be a problem, however the realistic side of me knows that it is whether I want it to be or not, and if I and others were saved in an unfortunate situation we'd be celebrating the carrier as a hero and bowing down to thank him. "Thank God For The Bomb" Like moths to a flame Is man ever gonna change? Time's seen untold aggression And infliction of pain If that's the only thing that's stopping war Then thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya War is just another game Tailor made for the insane But make a threat of their annihilation And nobody wants to play If that's the only thing that keeps the peace Then thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya Today was tommorow, yesterday It's funny how time can slip away The face of the doomsday clock Has launched a thousand wars As we near the final hour Time is the only foe we have When war is obsolete I'll thank God for war's defeat But any talk about hell freezing over Is all said with tongue in cheek Until the day the war drums beat no more I'll thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya
July 26, 201511 yr Call me curious. To expand, I have often read that we have the most guns per capita (something like 9 for every 10 men, women and children) in the world, the highest homicide rate via firearms in the (maybe "civilized") world, along with the highest accidental death rate via firearms. Nothing to see here, though. What I have NO IDEA about is if any other countries have anything as far-reaching as our second amendment. And if so, are their statistics comparable?
July 26, 201511 yr You hold the knife. I hold the gun. Game over. I win. Or vice versa. Unless you're facing James Coburn. :lol2: [video=youtube;AU-paVv6zTk]
July 26, 201511 yr Author Your question about the logic of more guns made me think about Ozzy Osbourne's 1986 song from his "The Ultimate Sin" release "Thank God For The Bomb". When first released it was a startling take and often misunderstood commentary that because of the Bomb, there is somehow a stalemate among nations, and that its ever present threat would make the fear of total annihilation make leaders back down, and therefore lead to keeping the peace. I got what he was saying, but idealistically I could never completely accept the logic, but in ways I guess that he does have a point. I'm assuming by the same token the same idea here with guns is that bad folks thinking of using a gun might think again if they thought that others too could counter them with their same poison. I don't completely buy that and worry that the more guns circulating, the more chance for problems. The whole gun thing is a double edged sword where many might wish they didn't exist in our culture, however I know personally that if I was out in public and a freak went nuts with a gun that I'd be thankful if a conceal carry guy stepped up to stop the craziness. Whereas I typically approach it idealistically and would hope that it didn't have to be a problem, however the realistic side of me knows that it is whether I want it to be or not, and if I and others were saved in an unfortunate situation we'd be celebrating the carrier as a hero and bowing down to thank him. "Thank God For The Bomb" Like moths to a flame Is man ever gonna change? Time's seen untold aggression And infliction of pain If that's the only thing that's stopping war Then thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya War is just another game Tailor made for the insane But make a threat of their annihilation And nobody wants to play If that's the only thing that keeps the peace Then thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya Today was tommorow, yesterday It's funny how time can slip away The face of the doomsday clock Has launched a thousand wars As we near the final hour Time is the only foe we have When war is obsolete I'll thank God for war's defeat But any talk about hell freezing over Is all said with tongue in cheek Until the day the war drums beat no more I'll thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Thank God for the bomb Nuke ya, nuke ya I read that backwards and saw the satanic message in it. :lol:
July 26, 201511 yr Who cares? We live here. We have a constitutional right to bear arms. Why would any gun owner, or American for that matter, give a rip what other countries restrict? To expand, I have often read that we have the most guns per capita (something like 9 for every 10 men, women and children) in the world, the highest homicide rate via firearms in the (maybe "civilized") world, along with the highest accidental death rate via firearms. Nothing to see here, though. What I have NO IDEA about is if any other countries have anything as far-reaching as our second amendment. And if so, are their statistics comparable? Sounds like a worthy enough question to me and I'm a concerned American.
July 26, 201511 yr Author Actually that might be an interesting topic. Firearm insurance for "assault" as you describe them weapons. Either way it is perfectly relevant, as a car capable of high speeds is not necessary nor is a large pickup unless you are a contractor or farmer. And given the carbon emissions that such inefficient vehicles release you could daresay that they are far more dangerous than firearms as they threaten the biosphere instead of just a couple people. They are weapons. What else do you with a gun? Maybe you're right. We should register, insure, and require an operator's license for all gun owners.
July 27, 201511 yr Lose someone to gun violence and get back to me about your collections. I have no groundless fear. I know it first hand. I pray everyday my wife and kids are not around some fool who believes he and his guns are more important than their lives. In this whole thread I have not argued against gun ownership rules other than assault weapons defined in past legislation. We need stricter checks to include all firearm purchases and those that may be at-risk. If you're a collector and you pass, super duper. If not then great 10-20 won't die at your hands someday. I don't collect guns, but if I did I would take all the tests to prove my innocence and justify my rights. I would support all legislation that required in-depth checks. If someone shot someone I loved I wouldn't blame the gun. I'd liken it to when my sister was killed by a drunk driver. I didn't blame alcohol and I didn't blame cars. I blamed the irresponsible idiot that killed my sister. The part you can't seem to get in your head is that it doesn't matter how many laws you pass, criminals will still get guns. How do you stop that? Again, drugs are completely illegal, yet look at the drug problem we have in this country.
July 27, 201511 yr In all seriousness. What I've never been able to understand is the notion that if we just had more guns (twice as many, ten times as many, whatever the factor), we would all be much safer and those alarming statistics would take a turn for the better. Especially if those guns were semiautomatic or automatic in nature. No one has been able (and it's probably because I'm just dense) been able to get that through my thick skull. Someone brought up automobiles and the millions of lives (well, thousands, at any rate) lost in vehicle accidents. If we simply had twice as many vehicles or ten times as many vehicles in circulation - faster and more powerful vehicles - should we see a corresponding decrease in these fatalities? First off, I never said we need more guns, I said that more conceal carry laws have seemed to decrease crime in some states. Fact is, violent crimes have been decreasing. I brought up automobiles and it IS millions world wide and it's tens of thousands in the US die each year. Cars have changed a lot over the years, guns, not so much. What has changed is people and the legal drugs they take, but you know that, then again it doesn't fit your agenda.
July 27, 201511 yr Maybe you're right. We should register, insure, and require an operator's license for all gun owners.Yeah, because those things stopped people from driving irresponsibly, it stopped automobile deaths...oh...wait.
July 27, 201511 yr Author Cars and guns are such a weak connection. Unless you are an officer of the law, a soldier, a firearm trainer of some type then you probably don't have a daily use for your gun. Kind of like a fire extinguisher. Back to the issue. Do you think the gun laws we have are enforced to the fullest extent?
July 27, 201511 yr My perception is gang violence and drug-related violence (and often the two converge) is the greatest cost to the safety and well-being of the citizens and especially the minority ones in this country. When we can successfully address these problems, we will have done something. If I am a terrorist, these days, then I just fund a gang or a drug czar to get at the US.
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