Wow talk about a terrible point that can't be supported.

 

So what you are really saying abortion clinics murdered more black babies so less crime ? Wow racism.

 

I didn't say that it had anything to do with race. That's one heck of a leap that you made. :eek:

If you read the study it is just numbers.

We have background checks. How will they stop a criminal from getting a gun?

 

On the assault weapons ban:

 

1. Define an assault weapon.

2. What is the percentage of crimes committed with an "assault weapon"?

3. How will an "assault weapons" ban stop a criminal?

 

Dude, what if these things saved 1 life. How about 100? 1000?

Over a period 10,000?

 

What would you lose? You have your guns. You don't fit into the criteria of being denied. So your individual rights are not violated with the exception of not being able to buy an assault weapon.

 

BTW just pass the same legislation Clinton passed with the backing of Presidents Carter, Bush, Ford, and Reagan in the 1990's regarding assault weapons.

I don't think that anyone here is proposing that responsible law abiding gun enthusiasts have their guns taken away from them.

 

I get the whole idea that if good people don't have the right to have them then it will only be bad criminals who have them, and good people need the option to protect themselves from bad people.

 

It never seems to fail then when the topic arises regarding looking for ways to help make the whole idea of everyday citizens owning guns a more sensible and responsible affair, the gun enthusiasts get worked up and take it personally that there's a call to take their rights away from them, and they illogically don't want to entertain the topic of a nation being more responsible than we are now about ownership, and who is so freely and easily having the privilege of ownership, and with more guns about, who's also getting them in their hands illegally.

 

I don't recall a time as much as now where so many were so preoccupied with gun ownership, and it personally doesn't make me feel any safer with knowing that it's become big business and there's a high prevalence of guns circulating legally or illegally than ever before.

 

Everyday Joe might feel safer with his ability to carry, and I understand that, but I'm not so certain that I'm that comfortable knowing that Everyday Joe is carrying when I don't know the limits to Everyday Joe's snap factor.

 

Again if Everyday Joe is responsible then I really don't have a problem with it, however we need to make sure that Everyday Joe is truly mentally stable enough that he can be completely responsible about it, which might mean him having to prove himself stable periodically, and not just once.

 

One thing is for certain when it comes to many kids and the teen experience is the minute that something is considered off limits to them, it becomes the very thing that they want.

 

When I was growing up, alcohol and pot was off limits, so it became the very preoccupation of myself and many of my associations to go against the grain and obtain and use alcohol and pot as much as we could.

 

Personally when it came to booze, by the time I was of legal age is about the time I could care less about it. Unfortunately for others they became alcoholics or went on to stronger substances.

 

Today the preoccupation is heroin and guns, and though kids know going in that both things are risky business, the fact that the topic is so prevalent and kids think that they are immortal, lots are curious and want to be rebels, so let's see what it feels like to get high on heroin, and it'll be so cool and tough if I was carrying.

 

The side product of us becoming a nation more free to protect ourselves by owning guns is also the prevalence of them, and the preoccupation about them, and while more and more responsible people are obtaining them, also more and more irresponsible people are obtaining them as well.

 

Again no one is trying to restrict responsible people from ownership, but isn't it at all a concern of responsible people that it's not only responsible people more and more also having them?

 

Please if you're capable, step back a notch from your "no body better infringe on my rights" stance, and see the bigger picture.

 

By comparison, you might be very responsible and comfortable with the idea of being legally able to run to your neighborhood liquor store and score a bottle of bourbon to take back home to enjoy, but if you found out that your driving teen kid was also scoring a bottle to booze it up with his friends, and then irresponsibly get behind the wheel, do you think that you'd want to step away a little from your legal alcohol rights and address the problem of booze getting in the hands of those who might not be using it responsibly?

 

No one is suggesting to make alcohol illegal, but if there's a problem of it getting in the wrong hands, my guess is that you'd want to address it, and by the same token, I believe that those calling for searches for solutions to ensure more safer situations in society regarding guns are proposing this on a similar level and not with the intent to take away any responsible people's rights in the process.

 

Please ease up a little from the "my rights protection" some, and take a closer look at the bigger picture, for yourself and for all of us.

Dude, what if these things saved 1 life. How about 100? 1000?

Over a period 10,000?

 

What would you lose? You have your guns. You don't fit into the criteria of being denied. So your individual rights are not violated with the exception of not being able to buy an assault weapon.

 

BTW just pass the same legislation Clinton passed with the backing of Presidents Carter, Bush, Ford, and Reagan in the 1990's regarding assault weapons.

Why are you avoiding the questions?

Neither you or the author seem to want to talk about the lives saved every year because of guns and gun owners, I always find that amusing.

 

There are some very skewed numbers out there on how many times people actually USE a weapon to save a life.

 

Do guns make us safer? - CNN.com

I don't think that anyone here is proposing that responsible law abiding gun enthusiasts have their guns taken away from them.

 

I get the whole idea that if good people don't have the right to have them then it will only be bad criminals who have them, and good people need the option to protect themselves from bad people.

 

It never seems to fail then when the topic arises regarding looking for ways to help make the whole idea of everyday citizens owning guns a more sensible and responsible affair, the gun enthusiasts get worked up and take it personally that there's a call to take their rights away from them, and they illogically don't want to entertain the topic of a nation being more responsible than we are now about ownership, and who is so freely and easily having the privilege of ownership, and with more guns about, who's also getting them in their hands illegally.

 

I don't recall a time as much as now where so many were so preoccupied with gun ownership, and it personally doesn't make me feel any safer with knowing that it's become big business and there's a high prevalence of guns circulating legally or illegally than ever before.

 

Everyday Joe might feel safer with his ability to carry, and I understand that, but I'm not so certain that I'm that comfortable knowing that Everyday Joe is carrying when I don't know the limits to Everyday Joe's snap factor.

 

Again if Everyday Joe is responsible then I really don't have a problem with it, however we need to make sure that Everyday Joe is truly mentally stable enough that he can be completely responsible about it, which might mean him having to prove himself stable periodically, and not just once.

 

One thing is for certain when it comes to many kids and the teen experience is the minute that something is considered off limits to them, it becomes the very thing that they want.

 

When I was growing up, alcohol and pot was off limits, so it became the very preoccupation of myself and many of my associations to go against the grain and obtain and use alcohol and pot as much as we could.

 

Personally when it came to booze, by the time I was of legal age is about the time I could care less about it. Unfortunately for others they became alcoholics or went on to stronger substances.

 

Today the preoccupation is heroin and guns, and though kids know going in that both things are risky business, the fact that the topic is so prevalent and kids think that they are immortal, lots are curious and want to be rebels, so let's see what it feels like to get high on heroin, and it'll be so cool and tough if I was carrying.

 

The side product of us becoming a nation more free to protect ourselves by owning guns is also the prevalence of them, and the preoccupation about them, and while more and more responsible people are obtaining them, also more and more irresponsible people are obtaining them as well.

 

Again no one is trying to restrict responsible people from ownership, but isn't it at all a concern of responsible people that it's not only responsible people more and more also having them?

 

Please if you're capable, step back a notch from your "no body better infringe on my rights" stance, and see the bigger picture.

 

By comparison, you might be very responsible and comfortable with the idea of being legally able to run to your neighborhood liquor store and score a bottle of bourbon to take back home to enjoy, but if you found out that your driving teen kid was also scoring a bottle to booze it up with his friends, and then irresponsibly get behind the wheel, do you think that you'd want to step away a little from your legal alcohol rights and address the problem of booze getting in the hands of those who might not be using it responsibly?

 

No one is suggesting to make alcohol illegal, but if there's a problem of it getting in the wrong hands, my guess is that you'd want to address it, and by the same token, I believe that those calling for searches for solutions to ensure more safer situations in society regarding guns are proposing this on a similar level and not with the intent to take away any responsible people's rights in the process.

 

Please ease up a little from the "my rights protection" some, and take a closer look at the bigger picture, for yourself and for all of us.

I got news, guns were popular when I was a kid, I think I'm a bit older than you. Heck, we used to be able to walk down the street with our .22 rifles. Odd you lump guns in with heroin. Tell me what you have to fear from law aiding citizens. Tell me how you keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

 

The rest of your points come down to parenting.

There are some very skewed numbers out there on how many times people actually USE a weapon to save a life.

 

Do guns make us safer? - CNN.com

Depends on the source.

Why are you avoiding the questions?

 

Because you have Google like I do.

 

We have been down the assault weapons ban before just so happen it was during a period violent crime was declining: 1994-2004 ( might be another contributor).

Bush 2 let the ban run out in 2004. After Sandy Hook , 2013 legislation was proposed to Congress but did not pass since semiautomatic weapons with large magazines were used on 20 elementary children by a 20 year old with mental issues.

Edited July 25, 201511 yr by Hellcats
Date

I got news, guns were popular when I was a kid, I think I'm a bit older than you. Heck, we used to be able to walk down the street with our .22 rifles. Odd you lump guns in with heroin. Tell me what you have to fear from law aiding citizens. Tell me how you keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

 

The rest of your points come down to parenting.

 

 

I agree with you: parenting sucks, so we we got to find a way to get guns out of irresponsible young people's hands .

Because you have Google like I do.

 

We have been down the assault weapons ban before just so happen it was during a period violent crime was declining: 1994-2004 ( might be another contributor).

Bush 2 let the ban run out in 2004. After Sandy Hook , 2013 legislation was proposed to Congress but did not pass since semiautomatic weapons with large magazines were used on 20 elementary children by a 20 year old with mental issues.

Ah, mental health. So....let's go after guns? Makes zero sense.

 

The "assault weapons" ban was a joke based on lies, fear mongering and ignorance. Again, how does banning these weapons stop criminals?

I agree with you: parenting sucks, so we we got to find a way to get guns out of irresponsible young people's hands .

Okay. So how do we do that? You seem to think banning guns and having more background checks will stop it, I'm telling you it wont. Look at all (and there are a ton of them) laws and restrictions on the books now for guns. How will more stop the problem?

Ah, mental health. So....let's go after guns? Makes zero sense.

 

The "assault weapons" ban was a joke based on lies, fear mongering and ignorance. Again, how does banning these weapons stop criminals?

 

"Mother Jones conducted an analysis of mass shootings that occurred between 1982 and 2012 and found that more than half of all mass shooters possessed high-capacity ammunition magazines, assault weapons or both."

 

Seems really scary to me.

 

That's a start.

 

1. If you're crazy, convicted druggie, domestic abuser, on the terrorist watch list you can't buy a gun.

2. No one needs to buy a NEW assault weapon. Keep your old ones

"Mother Jones conducted an analysis of mass shootings that occurred between 1982 and 2012 and found that more than half of all mass shooters possessed high-capacity ammunition magazines, assault weapons or both."

 

Seems really scary to me.

 

That's a start.

 

1. If you're crazy, convicted druggie, domestic abuser, on the terrorist watch list you can't buy a gun.

2. No one needs to buy a NEW assault weapon. Keep your old ones

Mother Jones? Are you serious? You want me to post crap from sources like Rush Limbaugh? You'll trust that about as much as I trust Mother Jones.

 

On your two points:

 

1. If you're crazy, convicted druggie, domestic abuser, on the terrorist watch list you can absolutely obtain a gun.

2. Says who? What gives you the right to tell law abiding citizens what they can legally buy? What about law abiding citizens that don't own an "assault weapon" (which, btw, you have yet to define), why shouldn't they be able to legally purchase one?

Mother Jones? Are you serious? You want me to post crap from sources like Rush Limbaugh? You'll trust that about as much as I trust Mother Jones.

 

On your two points:

 

1. If you're crazy, convicted druggie, domestic abuser, on the terrorist watch list you can absolutely obtain a gun.

2. Says who? What gives you the right to tell law abiding citizens what they can legally buy? What about law abiding citizens that don't own an "assault weapon" (which, btw, you have yet to define), why shouldn't they be able to legally purchase one?

 

Sorry that stat didn't come from your approved sources. Here is the link: it has some nice graphics to go with it.

 

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

 

1. Yes, and my 16 year old can obtain a case of beer too, but I don't want it to be lawful.

2. You can't legally own a bazooka, a tank, an f16, a nuke...You can't have everything you want.

I got news, guns were popular when I was a kid, I think I'm a bit older than you. Heck, we used to be able to walk down the street with our .22 rifles. Odd you lump guns in with heroin. Tell me what you have to fear from law aiding citizens. Tell me how you keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

 

The rest of your points come down to parenting.

 

I grew up in a rough part of the west side of Covington and while running around getting high with even some kids that I really shouldn't have been running around with, I never once saw anyone with a gun or even heard people talking about having them.

 

Sure, it's possible that some of the residents or store owners in the area had handguns or hunting rifles, but where the kids were concerned, and some very rough ones at that, it wasn't a concern.

 

Very few times in my neighborhood did I ever hear of murders by gunshot, and I'm talking about a neighborhood where there were Hatfield and Mccoy type family fights on a regular basis requiring Covington's finest to make frequent daily stops.

 

When I was about 18 a punk a few doors down shot and killed a girl who wouldn't put out, and was back on the streets bragging about it a year later just to eventually rape and thieve a barmaid a block away at closing time, and is thankfully now serving a life sentence. He used to sucker punch me as a kid just for kicks.

 

I just used guns and heroin to compare them to my childhood preoccupation with booze and pot, and not saying that guns and heroin were necessarily related, but to show what risky stuff kids will become preoccupied with if it becomes a common thing on the streets were curiosity to partake just becomes the next step, and they get the impression that it's off limits to them, and they want to look cool to their piers.

 

In my post I wasn't too worked up about law abiding citizens carrying if in fact they are mentally stable and responsible about it. Not sure how you considered that I was, but I was concerned with making sure that everyone granted the privilege was truly studied well enough to make sure, and my other concern was that with the topic becoming so common, and more guns circulating about that higher incidences of them getting into the wrong hands increases as well with the preoccupation increasing along with it.

 

I don't know how to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, but because I don't know is no reason not to ponder how and perhaps execute ways to try. Ignoring it is not a solution. The more guns being made increases the chances of more guns getting in the wrong hands. We're obviously long beyond any chance of removing all guns from our culture because it has gotten so far out of hand that it's to the point of no return sadly. Idealistically I'd love to live in a world where they didn't exist, but I realize that that is completely impossible.

 

I'd like to believe that legal responsible carriers and those who don't carry alike can still be on the same team in efforts to explore ways to do what can be done to avoid having guns get into the wrong hands. Yes indeed keeping them out of the hands of criminals is difficult for sure, but making sure they stay out of the hands of off kilter everyday people by having stiffer filtering background systems wouldn't be a bad idea. Too often it seems that the present background check system has failed us. It shouldn't be as easy as it is for Joe Schmo to get clearance.

 

I know that you're a responsible dude and i've little doubt that the others out here who carry are as well. I get those defending their right to carry. I also defend your right to carry. What I haven't yet been able to comprehend from those who carry is their fuss or objection to those like me or Hellcats who feel that while we have these rights, that along with it we should do all that we can to ensure or at the least ponder and consider that we're making the best efforts possible at making it the safest that we can. Though all answers are not presently completely apparent, and no one is suggesting that one of them be taking away your rights, what's so wrong about seeing and admitting that while it's good that we have rights, there's also obvious elements of bad in our society that goes along with it, and trying to find ways to make it better?