So me and Lipton Bash have found common ground despite that we usually disagree most everywhere. Please consider what we say, so that your kids don't grow up to be dolts who don't know how to handle their alcohol simply because they've been told their whole life they can't, and that they are powerless against alcohol's mystique. You can control how you act when drinking, and so can your kids.

 

Early morning / late night drinking binges will have that effect.....

I understand your position. This is not a legal stop by what you have said. He didn't indicate that he thought you were impaired, gave no reference to any law broken, no safety related concern for the stop....just a cop hanging out in a parking lot next to a bar and deciding to follow and pull someone over. No basis and a certain impingement on your personal freedom.

 

I would not have thanked him. I would have taken badge information and been at the station first thing next AM...

 

The problem with a stop like this is that you no longer know where the line is as a law abiding citizen.

 

A uniform and a badge does not give an individual the right to violate my personal freedom to come and go as I please....

 

I'm sure you wouldn't have been alone in being aggravated, getting badge numbers, complaining, etc. I'm equally sure I am in the minority in not having been bugged in the least that I was stopped. I get that and I certainly see and respect your opinion. Truthfully, at the time, whether or not it was legal didn't cross my mind, and I'm sure the law of averages were in his favor that if he pulled over 10 people in said fashion, 9 of them would have been over .08 and therefore their protesting the stop would have seemed flimsy.

 

I don't feel any of my unalienable rights were violated by being stopped, but again, I wholly understand those that do and get sideways over it. If by doing those stops they keep drunk drivers from hitting the highway and causing serious damage to themselves and those around them, I don't sweat it. People can't be trusted to make good decisions about when they should and shouldn't be driving, it is just what it is, and if our drunk driving laws / practices were working we wouldn't have a litany of people with multiple DUI's on their record.

 

I'm not the least bit anti-alcohol, my wife drinks, my friends drink, and in the past, I occasionally had a few. I'm against people getting behind the wheel of a car after drinking beyond the legal limit. Really against it. If I have to be inconvenienced to snare a few who shouldn't be driving, I'm okay with it. Again, I fully see your point, understand completely where you're coming from, and appreciate you being open to the discussion in a healthy fashion.

The law may say that, but I can assure you that I am in no way, shape or form drunk at .08. It's a silly arbitrary number that fails to take into account the fact that some people can handle their alcohol, while others can't.

 

Yeah, that number is arbitrary. I'm sure no studies were done to get an average of a cross section of different people and their impairment.

 

If you want to drive at .08, please feel free to do so. Don't complain if you get a DUI. You knew the law and made the choice.

Yeah, that number is arbitrary. I'm sure no studies were done to get an average of a cross section of different people and their impairment.

 

If you want to drive at .08, please feel free to do so. Don't complain if you get a DUI. You knew the law and made the choice.

 

You've got a hand-held, I suppose. Let's go grab some beers and get on a closed course and I'll show you just how arbitrary they are.

You've got a hand-held, I suppose. Let's go grab some beers and get on a closed course and I'll show you just how arbitrary they are.

 

I want in.

I want in.

 

You're just looking for the free drinks :laugh:

You're just looking for the free drinks :laugh:

 

:lol2:

 

I can provide my own, if necessary. I am super curious to know how well I could function being right at the legal limit.

Just how harsh should the penalties be?? Pretty much right now, a DUI can have a major impact on your life. Get a DUI and expect fines, loss of your license can possibly lead to job loss. You can forget about passing a background check or getting any future job that requires a clean driving record (which many jobs do). You'll lose your car insurance, and pay through the teeth to get coverage in the future. That's all pretty severe punishment in itself. Sure you could mandate jail time. Or make it cost even more. But I doubt that even harsher penalties will change behavior the way we expect it to. Punishment is rarely effective at changing any behavior because it comes after the fact. And quite honestly most people fit into a few categories. 1, they'll never drink and drive under any circumstances. 2, people believe they won't get caught. And with the number of full parking lots you see at bars, I'd say most people fit into this category, and I'd also say, they are probably right. I know guys that have a few drinks every day after work, have done it for years, and have never come close to getting a DUI. These people don't care about consequences because they simply don't think about them. They'll continue to take their chances. And if the current penalties don't scare you (which they should!!), harsher penalties probably won't scare you either. Filling up jails with DUI offenders will do nothing to keep drunks off the road.

 

I don't know what the answer is. But I think it lies in education and getting more people into the first category, those who will never drink and drive. Teaching the correct behaviors is much more effective than hoping punishment (or possible punishment) will be enough to prevent people from exhibiting the wrong behavior.

Just how harsh should the penalties be?? Pretty much right now, a DUI can have a major impact on your life. Get a DUI and expect fines, loss of your license can possibly lead to job loss. You can forget about passing a background check or getting any future job that requires a clean driving record (which many jobs do). You'll lose your car insurance, and pay through the teeth to get coverage in the future. That's all pretty severe punishment in itself. Sure you could mandate jail time. Or make it cost even more. But I doubt that even harsher penalties will change behavior the way we expect it to. Punishment is rarely effective at changing any behavior because it comes after the fact. And quite honestly most people fit into a few categories. 1, they'll never drink and drive under any circumstances. 2, people believe they won't get caught. And with the number of full parking lots you see at bars, I'd say most people fit into this category, and I'd also say, they are probably right. I know guys that have a few drinks every day after work, have done it for years, and have never come close to getting a DUI. These people don't care about consequences because they simply don't think about them. They'll continue to take their chances. And if the current penalties don't scare you (which they should!!), harsher penalties probably won't scare you either. Filling up jails with DUI offenders will do nothing to keep drunks off the road.

 

I don't know what the answer is. But I think it lies in education and getting more people into the first category, those who will never drink and drive. Teaching the correct behaviors is much more effective than hoping punishment (or possible punishment) will be enough to prevent people from exhibiting the wrong behavior.

 

To the bolded, couldn't it be because they know that a few drinks won't impair them?

To the bolded, couldn't it be because they know that a few drinks won't impair them?

 

Absolutely. They know they'll be fine and won't do anything silly while driving to get themselves pulled over. I'd say most people would be surprised at how little alcohol it would take to blow a .08. I used to play semi pro baseball with a guy that would drink a beer between every inning after drinking a few before the game. Never missed a beat and you'd never know he was drinking by watching him play. Guarantee he was .08 by the second inning.

 

Just so I'm understanding... I can lose my license for a period of time for refusing a FST when I know I haven't been drinking?

 

No. Only a blood test. But if you haven't been drinking or doing drugs you likely won't make it to the blood test anyways.

 

Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

Again, only the blood or breath test causes you to lose your license if you refuse. And you agreed to that when you got a drivers license.

 

I understand your position. This is not a legal stop by what you have said. He didn't indicate that he thought you were impaired, gave no reference to any law broken, no safety related concern for the stop....just a cop hanging out in a parking lot next to a bar and deciding to follow and pull someone over. No basis and a certain impingement on your personal freedom.

 

I would not have thanked him. I would have taken badge information and been at the station first thing next AM...

 

The problem with a stop like this is that you no longer know where the line is as a law abiding citizen.

 

A uniform and a badge does not give an individual the right to violate my personal freedom to come and go as I please....

 

Odds are he had some silly reason and didn't tell him. If he's stopping cars for no reason any DUI is going to get dismiss anyway.

It's funny that so many people think they are good at .08.

 

Have you watched yourself drive at.08? One thing about alcohol is that it impairs your judgement, and most people probably think they are functioning better than they really are at .08.

First offense is usually 90 days suspension, 30 days over your head for 2 years with a $1000 dollar fine and a bunch of $20 dollar alcohol classes.

 

Second offense is usually 7 days in jail 1 year suspension, year of alcohol classes, 2 years probation and a bigger fine.

 

Sounds like this is coming from someone with experience. :lol2: