Tradeoff to the above is lower pay.

 

Lower then who?

Lower then who?

 

Lower than many with comparable experience and education. Buddy my age has his masters and 35 years experience but makes what I made almost 20 years ago while doing a job that really is more important than mine. I don't begrudge him the time off and other perks.

That maybe idk her, but I do have contacts inside Mason Co Schools that have told me that most all non tenure teachers were getting pink slips this year.

I believe the practice of giving pink slips to all non-tenured teachers is standard in some school districts. The better ones are rehired, the others aren't.

I believe the practice of giving pink slips to all non-tenured teachers is standard in some school districts. The better ones are rehired, the others aren't.

 

If a teacher is low performing, why wait until just before tenure to terminate?

If the person is a poor teacher, but a good coach, the admin may have been trying to help the coach improve in the classroom or get to a satisfactory level. It is common place to put teachers on action plans, etc. to help them improve. If they don't improve, they are pink slipped and not renewed. Renewing a bad teacher into tenure is far worse for the school then firing a good coach. Once they are tenured, it is almost impossible to get rid of them. This most likely has nothing to do with avoiding retirement plan costs. Bad teachers need to be fired before tenure despite being a coach.

If a teacher is low performing, why wait until just before tenure to terminate?

Sometimes perfectly good non-tenured teachers are let go because the school needs to find a classroom for new football defensive coordinator ... or because only X number of math teachers are needed for next year based on enrollment projections ... or because superintendent in adjacent school district has a son or daughter who needs a job. Handing out pink slips at end of school year to all non-tenureds facilitates this shell game.

With all due respect, and I used to work in education. It's tough, it's not for everyone, I opted to leave. Teaching has benefits unlike most other jobs, therefore it's not like a real world job. And for what it's worth I don't begrudge teacher these benefits.

 

1. All the time off. I would love to have spring break, summer break, winter break and all the holidays that teacher get. And before you start about ConEd and advanced educational requirements I don't buy it. In my job I need ConEd but I don't have days built into my schedule to provide it nor do I have 3 months off in the summer to get it.

 

2. Tenure. There's not another job in the world that just because you've done it for a few years you are automatically protected from termination. It makes it almost impossible to terminate a bad teacher.

 

3. Retirement. Several friends my age have retired with a defined benefits pension. I'm not 60 yet. I'd LOVE to have that option. People in the real world not only have to work until they are at least 65 and even then have to hope they've accumulated enough in their retirement plan or you end up flipping burgers of greeting people at Wal-Mart because you can't afford total retirement.

 

I am sorry that anyone loses their job, I've been through it, it's traumatic. I'm also sorry but to say it shouldn't happen just because someone is a teacher is a bit of an insult when people in other professions that require just as much education and don't have the perks of teaching face it every day.

Again with the "real world" comment.

What would be better, corporate world, 12 month a year world, no artificial assurances of employment world?

 

Again with due respect I don't think that teachers have to deal with the same issues that most people deal with in their job. I place all of academia outside of the real world of work.

If a teacher is low performing, why wait until just before tenure to terminate?

 

Many are on a year to year contract.

Sounds like the "tenure" is a problem - not a benefit.

 

It is a concept that is an academia element. I did not even realize it existed in HS or lower.

What would be better, corporate world, 12 month a year world, no artificial assurances of employment world?

 

Again with due respect I don't think that teachers have to deal with the same issues that most people deal with in their job. I place all of academia outside of the real world of work.

 

Easy dude before you stick your foot in your mouth. Teachers deal with the "real world". Kids bring it with them to school everyday.

 

2 things: 1. If this is a good teacher and coach they aren't let go.

 

2. Any trouble on tenure year or before with classroom management you're gone.

What would be better, corporate world, 12 month a year world, no artificial assurances of employment world?

 

Again with due respect I don't think that teachers have to deal with the same issues that most people deal with in their job. I place all of academia outside of the real world of work.

 

Not the same issues, but equally or more stressful. Usually, when business people try to become teachers they struggle mightily with classroom management and end up leaving after a few years. That was a generalization.

With all due respect, and I used to work in education. It's tough, it's not for everyone, I opted to leave. Teaching has benefits unlike most other jobs, therefore it's not like a real world job. And for what it's worth I don't begrudge teacher these benefits.

 

1. All the time off. I would love to have spring break, summer break, winter break and all the holidays that teacher get. And before you start about ConEd and advanced educational requirements I don't buy it. In my job I need ConEd but I don't have days built into my schedule to provide it nor do I have 3 months off in the summer to get it.

 

2. Tenure. There's not another job in the world that just because you've done it for a few years you are automatically protected from termination. It makes it almost impossible to terminate a bad teacher.

 

3. Retirement. Several friends my age have retired with a defined benefits pension. I'm not 60 yet. I'd LOVE to have that option. People in the real world not only have to work until they are at least 65 and even then have to hope they've accumulated enough in their retirement plan or you end up flipping burgers of greeting people at Wal-Mart because you can't afford total retirement.

 

I am sorry that anyone loses their job, I've been through it, it's traumatic. I'm also sorry but to say it shouldn't happen just because someone is a teacher is a bit of an insult when people in other professions that require just as much education and don't have the perks of teaching face it every day.

 

Can I ask why you left education? Were you a teacher? I work in the "real world" and you couldn't pay me enough to take an inner city teaching job. These teachers don't just teach math from 8-3 and their done. They have to babysit, counsel, be a friend, be a disciplinarian, etc. They have to have a higher education than most people in the real world and probably get paid a lot less than someone in the "real world" with the same education. It takes a special person to become a teacher. They definately get some great benefits but to think they aren't in the real world is just hogwash.

Can I ask why you left education? Were you a teacher? I work in the "real world" and you couldn't pay me enough to take an inner city teaching job. These teachers don't just teach math from 8-3 and their done. They have to babysit, counsel, be a friend, be a disciplinarian, etc. They have to have a higher education than most people in the real world and probably get paid a lot less than someone in the "real world" with the same education. It takes a special person to become a teacher. They definately get some great benefits but to think they aren't in the real world is just hogwash.

 

I was on the fast track to no where in education. I had a teaching certificate in a field that was packed so I worked as a sub for 3 years waiting for a full time position. While doing that I got to see up close and personal several INEPT teachers that had tenure that couldn't be touched. One of my subbing assignments was a week long descent into purgatory covering for a brand new teacher who resigned one week into the school year. I understand why. She was a math teacher, given all remedial classes because the teachers with the most seniority and union backing wouldn't take them. She didn't have her own class room so just like the students she changed class rooms every period and had to go to her locker to get her books. The students saw her as another kid and treated her as such. As I said she lasted a week. We'll never know if she could have been a good teacher because IMVHO the archaic system of tenure and seniority based assignments forced her out.

 

You'll never hear me say that being a teacher isn't incredibly stressful and difficult but the systems that are put in place in most places to "protect" the teacher are unlike anything that anyone in other professions has.

 

I've been in my current profession for almost 30 years now. I make about the average salary a JCPS teacher makes but if I was a teacher I would be able to retire now with a defined pension. I have to have a degree and I have to maintain continuing education on my own time. I'm contribute to a 401K and could possibly retire in 10 years (when I'm 65) if I have enough saved to do so. I work 12 months a year, get 6 paid holidays and a combined 4 weeks sick leave/paid time off.

 

I've seen the other side, I know there are gifted and talented people that teach, I respect them greatly but it really rubs me the wrong way when I hear people act like teachers have it so bad when the reality is that on many levels they have it better then people in the corporate world.

I was on the fast track to no where in education. I had a teaching certificate in a field that was packed so I worked as a sub for 3 years waiting for a full time position. While doing that I got to see up close and personal several INEPT teachers that had tenure that couldn't be touched. One of my subbing assignments was a week long descent into purgatory covering for a brand new teacher who resigned one week into the school year. I understand why. She was a math teacher, given all remedial classes because the teachers with the most seniority and union backing wouldn't take them. She didn't have her own class room so just like the students she changed class rooms every period and had to go to her locker to get her books. The students saw her as another kid and treated her as such. As I said she lasted a week. We'll never know if she could have been a good teacher because IMVHO the archaic system of tenure and seniority based assignments forced her out.

 

You'll never hear me say that being a teacher isn't incredibly stressful and difficult but the systems that are put in place in most places to "protect" the teacher are unlike anything that anyone in other professions has.

 

I've been in my current profession for almost 30 years now. I make about the average salary a JCPS teacher makes but if I was a teacher I would be able to retire now with a defined pension. I have to have a degree and I have to maintain continuing education on my own time. I'm contribute to a 401K and could possibly retire in 10 years (when I'm 65) if I have enough saved to do so. I work 12 months a year, get 6 paid holidays and a combined 4 weeks sick leave/paid time off.

 

I've seen the other side, I know there are gifted and talented people that teach, I respect them greatly but it really rubs me the wrong way when I hear people act like teachers have it so bad when the reality is that on many levels they have it better then people in the corporate world.

 

No argument from me regarding tenure. But the real world comment is over the top. That would basically mean most union jobs are not the real world.

Edited May 7, 201511 yr by littleluck55
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