Joker do you think Wilson will be indicted based on what we know? Do you think he should be?

 

 

I think in general, it is very easy to get an indictment if you want to get one. An example of that is a jury indicting Rick Perry in Texas. In my experience, the saying, "you could indict a ham sandwich" is pretty true. Not the same rules of evidence, etc. that apply at a hearing before the grand jury that will attach later at trial and the process is heavily skewed in favor of the prosecution. All they really need to show is that there's enough evidence to take it to trial to determine whether or not you COULD be guilty.

 

I honestly don't know enough about it to say whether he should really get anything past a summons to appear before a grand jury and answer questions.

 

For PR purposes, I think they probably will return an indictment, regardless of whether one is warranted or not. Sad but true.

To the above post in #1093, I think that the fact that those are juvenile records will make it even tougher for them to be entered into evidence. If it was something that had occurred as an adult, the hurdle wouldn't be nearly as steep. Again, I don't really know how Missouri's laws will work and did open some of my notes from Evidence and see a part where it said Texas was usually pretty tough to get a past conviction in, so maybe it's just one of those things that varies from place to place.

Joker do you think Wilson will be indicted based on what we know? Do you think he should be?

 

I still say he will not be indicted.

I will say that I think if he does end up indicted, a lot of things that led to the indictment could end up being things that were outside the officer's control that made the situation look worse (i.e., reports of the body being left on the asphalt in the sun for hours that gives the appearance that police didn't care and gave people the opportunity to take graphic photos, etc.).

Interesting post that I saw on Facebook today. It comes from the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University...

 

On behalf of the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University, we express our deepest support for the family of Michael Brown and solidarity with the community of Ferguson, Missouri. As budding scholars and practitioners in the Criminal Justice field we would be remiss to not recognize the deeply ingrained institutionalized racism that pervades policing and law enforcement throughout this country making, sadly, the events that have unfolded in Ferguson unsurprising, though no less unacceptable.

 

Policing in this country over the past several decades has shifted further and further away from the idea of police as “peace officers” and closer to a more militarized outlook, viewing the people of our communities as combatants. Young Black men specifically, minorities and the poor in general, are often seen as the most dangerous of these perceived combatants. This is certainly the case with Michael Brown’s shooting and the aftermath of militarized police crackdown on protestors who have had no official avenues to express their mounting outrage as nationally, the body count from excessive police-perpetrated violence rises. We share this outrage.

 

Reform is needed from the national, to the local, and the individual level if we are going to create a police force of the future that is cognizant of, and responsive to, the realities and needs of all populations within a community without resorting so rapidly to violence and deadly force. In pursuit of this we fully support the list of actions developed by Sociologists for Justice, who currently have the signed support of nearly 1,200 (and counting, please see references for a link to their website) sociologists and criminologists across the United States. In particular we support the following national legislative action recommended:

 

“Legislation requiring the use of dash and body-worn cameras to record all police interactions. Data from these devices should be immediately stored in tamper-proof databases, and there should be clear procedures for public access to any such recordings….

 

Federal legislation, currently being developed by Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA), to halt the transfer of military equipment to local police departments, and additional legislation to curtail the use of such equipment against domestic civilian populations.”

 

Additionally we fully support the list of recommendations developed in a recent blog post by Dr. Kishonna Gray of the School of Justice Studies at Eastern Kentucky University. Dr. Gray’s recommendations are directed at local police departments and, if headed, would go a long way toward mending an ever-growing divide between the police and the communities they are trusted to protect and serve. In particular we want to highlight the following recommendations:

 

“Take Community Oriented Policing Seriously

Let’s try community policing again. Cops get out of your cars. Citizens are not enemy combatants. They are people who want to talk to you. We stare at you driving by for a reason. Yes we’re probably ticked off but get out and talk to us….

 

Diversity Training for Police

Existing diversity training for police officers is awful. For those policing marginalized communities, they know nothing of the communities they serve. Don’t just put this important task into the hands of the person who took a sociology course in race relations. Hire an actual professional and make sure the training is on-going. One time in the academy? The lesson won’t stick.”

 

As a people we must demand accountability from our officers and our policymakers. Our aim is a society where all people can expect respect and true safety when interacting with the police. We have a long way to go. The slaying of Michael Brown and the militarized response to protestors in Ferguson is just a small window into much larger problems. The loss of life at the hands of the state, the slaying of young black men, is not acceptable. We will not sit idly by any longer.

 

-The Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University

 

Gray, K.L.

http://uprootingcriminology.org/blogs/im-scared-boogeyman-ahem-mean-protect-threat-matter-big-black/

Sociologists for Justice. 400+ Sociologists Demand Justice and Change in Policing of Communities of Color. August 25, 2014,

Edited August 29, 201412 yr by bugatti

Link isn't working

Interesting post that I saw on Facebook today. It comes from the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University...

 

On behalf of the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University, we express our deepest support for the family of Michael Brown and solidarity with the community of Ferguson, Missouri. As budding scholars and practitioners in the Criminal Justice field we would ....

With all due respect to our EKU students, or maybe not...what do they really know about this issue and the details? Seems to me like a lot of other student activities....sounds good in school, then real life hits. To me, this position seems very one-sided. I fully support more training for officers of the law in promotion of non-violent confrontations, but where is the statement about our more violent society and gang warfare, etc. Maybe there is a reason our officers are more scared? I just like to see a balanced approach.

Isn't violent crime at about a 30 year low?

Interesting post that I saw on Facebook today. It comes from the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University...

 

On behalf of the Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University, we express our deepest support for the family of Michael Brown and solidarity with the community of Ferguson, Missouri. As budding scholars and practitioners in the Criminal Justice field we would be remiss to not recognize the deeply ingrained institutionalized racism that pervades policing and law enforcement throughout this country making, sadly, the events that have unfolded in Ferguson unsurprising, though no less unacceptable.

 

Policing in this country over the past several decades has shifted further and further away from the idea of police as “peace officers” and closer to a more militarized outlook, viewing the people of our communities as combatants. Young Black men specifically, minorities and the poor in general, are often seen as the most dangerous of these perceived combatants. This is certainly the case with Michael Brown’s shooting and the aftermath of militarized police crackdown on protestors who have had no official avenues to express their mounting outrage as nationally, the body count from excessive police-perpetrated violence rises. We share this outrage.

 

Reform is needed from the national, to the local, and the individual level if we are going to create a police force of the future that is cognizant of, and responsive to, the realities and needs of all populations within a community without resorting so rapidly to violence and deadly force. In pursuit of this we fully support the list of actions developed by Sociologists for Justice, who currently have the signed support of nearly 1,200 (and counting, please see references for a link to their website) sociologists and criminologists across the United States. In particular we support the following national legislative action recommended:

 

“Legislation requiring the use of dash and body-worn cameras to record all police interactions. Data from these devices should be immediately stored in tamper-proof databases, and there should be clear procedures for public access to any such recordings….

 

Federal legislation, currently being developed by Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA), to halt the transfer of military equipment to local police departments, and additional legislation to curtail the use of such equipment against domestic civilian populations.”

 

Additionally we fully support the list of recommendations developed in a recent blog post by Dr. Kishonna Gray of the School of Justice Studies at Eastern Kentucky University. Dr. Gray’s recommendations are directed at local police departments and, if headed, would go a long way toward mending an ever-growing divide between the police and the communities they are trusted to protect and serve. In particular we want to highlight the following recommendations:

 

“Take Community Oriented Policing Seriously

Let’s try community policing again. Cops get out of your cars. Citizens are not enemy combatants. They are people who want to talk to you. We stare at you driving by for a reason. Yes we’re probably ticked off but get out and talk to us….

 

Diversity Training for Police

Existing diversity training for police officers is awful. For those policing marginalized communities, they know nothing of the communities they serve. Don’t just put this important task into the hands of the person who took a sociology course in race relations. Hire an actual professional and make sure the training is on-going. One time in the academy? The lesson won’t stick.”

 

As a people we must demand accountability from our officers and our policymakers. Our aim is a society where all people can expect respect and true safety when interacting with the police. We have a long way to go. The slaying of Michael Brown and the militarized response to protestors in Ferguson is just a small window into much larger problems. The loss of life at the hands of the state, the slaying of young black men, is not acceptable. We will not sit idly by any longer.

 

-The Criminal Justice Graduate Student Association of Eastern Kentucky University

 

Wasn't the "militarized" response due to idiots looting, not (peaceful) protestors?

 

1 incident like Ferguson is 1 too many, obviously. But the other question and where it becomes a double-edged sword... Young Black men specifically, minorities and the poor in general, are often seen as the most dangerous of these perceived combatants. Maybe I am not fully grasping the context, but it is a fact that most crime is committed by the demographics being described. The real question in all of this should be on how to combat that, instead of the response generated to rare incidents such as Ferguson.

Wasn't the "militarized" response due to idiots looting, not (peaceful) protestors?

 

Other question and where it becomes a double-edged sword... Young Black men specifically, minorities and the poor in general, are often seen as the most dangerous of these perceived combatants. Maybe I am not fully grasping the context, but it is a fact that most crime is committed by the demographics being described. The real question in all of this should be on how to combat that, instead of the response generated to rare incidents such as Ferguson. 1 incident like Ferguson is 1 too many, obviously.

 

 

To the underlined, I think some would argue that crime is committed at around the same proportions across racial, economic, gender, and a variety of other factors, but it is, for a number of complex reasons, sometimes enforced against subsegments more heavily than others, which distorts the numbers.

 

A good example of this that comes up in the debates for legalization and/or decriminalization of marijuana is that, holding other factors constant, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in the proportions of black and white people who actually smoke marijuana, but if you look at convictions and the penalties imposed, there's a much more pronounced difference. Not saying that it's the result of conscious racism in every case, but that there might be a number of complex factors at work that would explain the disparity.

To the underlined, I think some would argue that crime is committed at around the same proportions across racial, economic, gender, and a variety of other factors, but it is, for a number of complex reasons, sometimes enforced against subsegments more heavily than others, which distorts the numbers.

One can argue that, and maybe some truth exists behind that, but I am not buying that for one second.

One can argue that, and maybe some truth exists behind that, but I am not buying that for one second.

 

 

So take a crime like rape for example. You don't think that people are more likely to convict a man of rape than a woman?

 

If you are sitting on a jury and what looks to be an attractive female is accused of raping a male, that you wouldn't have more doubts than you would if things were flipped and a male was being tried for raping a female?

 

It doesn't always have to be about race, but I definitely have no doubts that you are going to see someone's gender, income, race, religion, attractiveness, athletic ability, a number of things come into play and be a viable explanation as to why statistics on crime won't really tell the entire story.

So take a crime like rape for example. You don't think that people are more likely to convict a man of rape than a woman?

 

If you are sitting on a jury and what looks to be an attractive female is accused of raping a male, that you wouldn't have more doubts than you would if things were flipped and a male was being tried for raping a female?

 

It doesn't always have to be about race, but I definitely have no doubts that you are going to see someone's gender, income, race, religion, attractiveness, athletic ability, a number of things come into play and be a viable explanation as to why statistics on crime won't really tell the entire story.

Of course that is going to happen and was not saying otherwise. But not at the rate that would equalize proportionally across all backgrounds. Just not buying it. Our system is flawed, but not to that degree.

Of course that is going to happen and was not saying otherwise. But not at the rate that would equalize proportionally across all backgrounds. Just not buying it. Our system is flawed, but not to that degree.

 

True. I think the biggest influence in the whole thing would be household income. Regardless of what your race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. is, I'd imagine that income has the largest correlation between whether two people who actually committed the same crime wind up being read different verdicts. I do think race is still a factor too though, and that's actually something that I've come to realize more the longer I've been around the system and lived in a larger city, meaning that my view on it has shifted from what it used to be.

Isn't violent crime at about a 30 year low?

 

Interesting....seems to be. Here is an interesting article from a couple of years ago...

 

Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet - Forbes