I believe it is something like this (very, very simple version):

 

God knows everything. He knows if it is going to rain tomorrow, He knows how many hairs I have on my head, He knows how many grains of sand are on the beach. He also knows if I am going to sin tomorrow or not. However, God knows all this because God has no timeline - called Kairos time. Everything is now to God [and us when/if we are lucky enough to get to Heaven]. When did Christ die on the cross? Now. When was Obama elected President? Now. When will Apple release the iPhone 10? Now.

 

We, on the other hand, are merely made in God's image and are not of the same substance (see Nicene Creed). Therefore, we live in what is called Kronos time. Time that can be measured. Time that can be recorded with numbers and dates. Therefore, God knows whether we will sin tomorrow or not because He is in Kairos time, but for us here in Kronos time, it is not tomorrow, and come tomorrow, we will have a chance to exercise our Free Will.

 

Perhaps after midterm week I can provide more insight.

I have a question about the bolded because I get confused about the omniscience of God. If God is all-knowing and knows each individual's future before it occurs wouldn't that negate the idea of Free Will?

 

Good question. Even though God already knows what our free choices will be in the future, our choices are still ours and are still free. If our free choices change how the future will be, God already knows that and has known it for all eternity.

 

Let me give you an example that a friend of mine gave me. He has a five year old son. If he were to leave a chocolate chip cookie on the table about a hour before dinner time and his son was to walk by and see it, he knew that his son would pick up the cookie and eat it. He did not force his son to make that decision. In fact, he didn't even have to be in the room at all. He knew his son well enough, though, when he come back into the kitchen the cookie will be gone. His son's act was made completely free of his influence, but he knew what his son's actions would be. Omniscience and free will aren't incompatible.

For most Christians divine foreknowledge does not equal pre-determination. God perfectly knows all future events that free creatures will do even though He is not the direct cause of those events. In other words, He created humankind with the ability to make free choices. It's just that He knows what those freely-made decisions are in advance.

 

Consistent Calvinists would disagree and say that foreknowledge, if not the same as predestination, is very similar in that God foreknows because He has infallibly predetermined all events. This is the religious version of the philosophical idea of determinism.

 

The main point in regard to the OP is that the atheist facebook page elicits a straw man to ridicule faith. The Christian understanding of prayer and God's plan for one's life is much too complex to be damaged by the sophomoric inference it draws.

I believe it is something like this (very, very simple version):

 

God knows everything. He knows if it is going to rain tomorrow, He knows how many hairs I have on my head, He knows how many grains of sand are on the beach. He also knows if I am going to sin tomorrow or not. However, God knows all this because God has no timeline - called Kairos time. Everything is now to God [and us when/if we are lucky enough to get to Heaven]. When did Christ die on the cross? Now. When was Obama elected President? Now. When will Apple release the iPhone 10? Now.

 

We, on the other hand, are merely made in God's image and are not of the same substance (see Nicene Creed). Therefore, we live in what is called Kronos time. Time that can be measured. Time that can be recorded with numbers and dates. Therefore, God knows whether we will sin tomorrow or not because He is in Kairos time, but for us here in Kronos time, it is not tomorrow, and come tomorrow, we will have a chance to exercise our Free Will.

 

Perhaps after midterm week I can provide more insight.

 

My understanding of Kairos is more of "timing." It is the time when all things come together. Actually heard it referred to as "pregnant time."

Really good episode I saw this afternoon on Outside the Lines about Arian Foster. He calls himself an atheist, but then says that he doesn't know if there is a God, which in my mind would make him agnostic. Either way, it was a good episode. Thought provoking.

 

I've go a sister in law like this...claims she's an atheist, sounds agnostic, until Christmas Eve, then wants to go Midnight Mass. I mostly pretend like everything she says is white noise

I wonder if it's possible God(assuming he, she, or it is there somewhere) quit giving a crap a long time ago. As the plane was headed towards the Twin Towers, maybe God said, "I think I will stop that... On second thought, let there be light!"

Or maybe at Newtown, God said , "I should probably stop that fool... Ah, what the hell, Lanza Smanza. He'll get his in the end." Maybe God is so peeved at his creation darlings that has stopped giving a damn. I prefer to think that he, she, or it was never there to begin with. I believe that is the much more likely scenario.

 

However, I am willing to change my tune whenever there is any evidence at all to the contrary.

I wonder if it's possible God(assuming he, she, or it is there somewhere) quit giving a crap a long time ago. As the plane was headed towards the Twin Towers, maybe God said, "I think I will stop that... On second thought, let there be light!"

Or maybe at Newtown, God said , "I should probably stop that fool... Ah, what the hell, Lanza Smanza. He'll get his in the end." Maybe God is so peeved at his creation darlings that has stopped giving a damn. I prefer to think that he, she, or it was never there to begin with. I believe that is the much more likely scenario.

 

However, I am willing to change my tune whenever there is any evidence at all to the contrary.

 

People ask these things all the time. It is called "The Problem of Evil." Almost every philosophy book I've ever seen has a chapter on this topic. I recently did a sermon series through Job that tried to tackle this issue. It is indeed a hard one to handle.

I have no problem if someone doesn't believe in God, I don't force my belief on you. I just don't understand some atheist and their need to try and disapprove and put down another persons belief system. The same can be said for religious people who judge others belief system . But this movement in the country of the non-believers to mock and put down religion and God is disturbing.

 

I'm not saying that you do, but that is the problem that atheists and agnostics have with religious folk. Believe whatever you want. That's your right. If it makes you happy and gives you peace of mind, that's a good thing. Just don't try to force or legislate those beliefs into the public sphere. If Christians had their way, there would be Ten Commandments in all buildings and public schools. Creationism taught in schools. Prayer... and on and on. Do all of these things as much as you want in your private realm. I'm all for you doing that. But it has to stop there! Otherwise,that would be forcing your beliefs on those who believe differently. You do what you want in private. I do the same. I don't want to walk into a school or a courthouse and see your Ten Commandments or a prayer meeting no more than you would want be exposed to things that are not part of your belief system. I'm assuming an iconic Islamic symbol on top of a city water tower would not be okay with you. It wouldn't be okay with me either. I think those types of things shold be displayed only on private property. So let's all keep it private.

Edited October 23, 201510 yr by True blue (and gold)
fixed quote tag

People ask these things all the time. It is called "The Problem of Evil." Almost every philosophy book I've ever seen has a chapter on this topic. I recently did a sermon series through Job that tried to tackle this issue. It is indeed a hard one to handle.

 

 

What is your take on the issue? I just can't fathom a loving God allowing that kind of evil to happen when(assuming He is omnipotent) he could disallow it. Also, do you believe God is something in the abstract or a physical being? Was Jesus the physical manifestation of God? In addition, along with most other scientists, I believe it is a virtual certainty that life has sprung up elsewhere in the Universe( or in other universes). Probably millions or billions of times. Does that life serve the one God--your God? Would Jesus be God incarnate for those civilizations as well? Did Jesus die on a cross for the sins of the beings on other planets or was there a different salvation story from planet to planet? Just curious about your take on some of these things. If you want to tackle a couple of those just very briefly I'd appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. I doubt you will convince me of God , but I am curious about your take on these things. Thank you.

I'm not saying that you do, but that is the problem that atheists and agnostics have with religious folk. Believe whatever you want. That's your right. If it makes you happy and gives you peace of mind, that's a good thing. Just don't try to force or legislate those beliefs into the public sphere. If Christians had their way, there would be Ten Commandments in all buildings and public schools. Creationism taught in schools. Prayer... and on and on. Do all of these things as much as you want in your private realm. I'm all for you doing that. But it has to stop there! Otherwise,that would be forcing your beliefs on those who believe differently. You do what you want in private. I do the same. I don't want to walk into a school or a courthouse and see your Ten Commandments or a prayer meeting no more than you would want be exposed to things that are not part of your belief system. I'm assuming an iconic Islamic symbol on top of a city water tower would not be okay with you. It wouldn't be okay with me either. I think those types of things shold be displayed only on private property. So let's all keep it private.

 

What about forcing evolution on those that don't believe in it in our public schools? You have no problem with that.

What about forcing evolution on those that don't believe in it in our public schools? You have no problem with that.

 

The Constitution prohibits entanglement or endorsement of any religion by the government. It does not prohibit schools from teaching math, or science. That's kinda what SF was saying...just play by the rules. The rules include the Constitution.

What is your take on the issue? I just can't fathom a loving God allowing that kind of evil to happen when(assuming He is omnipotent) he could disallow it. Also, do you believe God is something in the abstract or a physical being? Was Jesus the physical manifestation of God? In addition, along with most other scientists, I believe it is a virtual certainty that life has sprung up elsewhere in the Universe( or in other universes). Probably millions or billions of times. Does that life serve the one God--your God? Would Jesus be God incarnate for those civilizations as well? Did Jesus die on a cross for the sins of the beings on other planets or was there a different salvation story from planet to planet? Just curious about your take on some of these things. If you want to tackle a couple of those just very briefly I'd appreciate it. Thanks a bunch. I doubt you will convince me of God , but I am curious about your take on these things. Thank you.

 

You bring up good points. To the bolded, that is a large part of what Christians call free will. This is my over-simplified version of it:

 

Free will is in simple terms the idea that God loves us so much, that he essentially gives us the choice to love him back. For some people, they choose to sin and do evil in order to show God that they do not love God back. That is how evil happens. Again, its more complicated, and perhaps I could get back on tonight after class and practice to explain further.

 

 

Regarding the question of atonement and life on other planets, I could not give you an answer. Until we have more knowledge of the other types of life on other planets, I think its impossible to say. For example, we know that Jesus did not die for the apes on earth. He died for the people. So let's say in 1000 years scientists on earth find another planet with life similar to ours but not as far evolutionized (meaning apes or another animal that we likely evolved from are the most advanced creature on the planet) then I would think that we could say Jesus did not die for their sins, since they are not humans as we are. JMO.

The Constitution prohibits entanglement or endorsement of any religion by the government. It does not prohibit schools from teaching math, or science. That's kinda what SF was saying...just play by the rules. The rules include the Constitution.

 

I've read and studied the Constitution. Your side should some more. (See Second Amendment)

 

Some (not myself) would argue that evolution could be considered a religion. In that case, should their children be exposed to it?

I've read and studied the Constitution. Your side should some more. (See Second Amendment)

 

Some (not myself) would argue that evolution could be considered a religion. In that case, should their children be exposed to it?

 

Anybody that argues that evolution is a religion is just wrong. Just because there are two sides to an issue doesn't make them equal. And, we can't structure our society based on the erroneous belief of someone who thinks evolution is a religion.

Anybody that argues that evolution is a religion is just wrong. Just because there are two sides to an issue doesn't make them equal. And, we can't structure our society based on the erroneous belief of someone who thinks evolution is a religion.

One definition of Religion: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

 

All Religion isn't about a deity or God.