To be clear, I didn't say I'd be against Team USA, I just said I wouldn't be for them and emotionally invested in the outcome of the games.

Word is Durant is pulling out now. That clears another spot for Cousins.

That's weak, Joker. Did you root for the Dream Team when MJ and Pippen refused to play for Team USA if Isiah Thomas was on the team?

 

Aldridge isn't there and Drunmond looked horrible last Friday. No way should Drummond have even made the last cut. He should already be gone. I wouldn't take Drummond over Plumlee or Cousins based on how the scrimmage went last week.

 

I love how how all the BGP armchair coaches all of a sudden know more than Coach K and the Team USA coaching staff. You guys missed your calling. :lol2: :lol2:

 

 

If Plumlee hadn't played for Duke, this would be almost a non-issue. Predictable, really.

 

 

 

WHY IT’S NOT A “UK/DUKE” THING FOR ME:

 

Trust me, it isn't a Duke thing. It's a "I want to watch the best team I can see", "as an American I don't expect to lose a basketball game to Spain", and "Coach K is being way too biased in favor of one (or two) of his own players thing. I've read K's book. I sent PP92 another copy of his book. I said he was one of the top college coaches in the game in the threads and debate we had there. I like Coach K enough, but he's testing my patience.

 

There's 2 Plumlee's on the Select Team roster! What the hell? Really, they are all basically the same player, and there's only so much that "coachability" is going to do when the talent just isn't there. I'm not seeing people worked up over Wall being excluded, so you know it's not just a "UK thing".

 

It's more like a "talent (or lack thereof)" and "nepotism" thing. I'd be fine with him taking Carlos Boozer of 2-3 years ago, but no Plumlee is that. I'd be far more willing to accept K taking Jabari Parker, at least then we could say it's a talented guy we're trying to build around in the future.

 

 

 

WHY I WON’T CARE AS MUCH:

 

If Team USA isn't going to take the best players available to them to try to win the game, then I'm not going to spend the time watching that I would have. It doesn't matter as much to me. Sorry if I'm not wanting to buy in to whatever Coach K is selling. Call me a fair weather if you’d like, but I don't want to take a chance on my blood pressure rising 30 points if I tune in to a game and see Plumlee getting killed while Cousins is back home and probably would come play on a moment's notice, Drummond is left off the team and could have helped, or we could have recruited someone like Aldridge, Jefferson, or Kawhi Leonard, or even just have taken someone like Draymond Green.

 

We need talent. No one with the last name Plumlee is THAT talented. Durant is now out. There's no Kevin Love, no Paul George, no Kobe, and finally, no LeBron. Again, we need talent.

 

If Coach K can't handle Cousins or talented players like him, then maybe he's not the best coach for this type team. Too many players don't even want to play, but Cousins is dying to.

 

K definitely isn't the best coach for the team if he leaves Cousins, Drummond, and others at home and gives two select spots to Plumlee and Cody Zeller. This is especially true when his last Olympic team (2012) had a collegiate player in Anthony Davis who got pressed into action because of injuries to bigs.

 

 

Even if we're assuming Cousins is a cancer who will kill chemistry, there's no justifying taking Plumlee when you could be taking others. Drummond, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson, Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, just tons of other ways the spot could be utilized.

 

Regardless, I’m not buying the “team cancer” thing anyway. Durant shares the league lead for technicals, but we'd love to have him and people think of him as a team player. Blake Griffin is in the same boat, but he's passionate. Cousins has the same number of technicals as those two, but he's a cancer. Go figure.

 

 

 

THE SPAIN FACTOR:

 

As of tonight, Team USA is looking at a lineup primarily reliant on: Rose (coming off injury), Curry, Harden, and Anthony Davis. We're going to rely on the scoring of guys like Curry and Harden. Those two and post-injury Rose don't strike me as defensive terrors, so having guys to anchor the middle will be even more important.

 

I don't think it'd be nearly as big of a deal if Spain, our main competition historically and on paper, weren't so loaded with big, physical front court players like Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, and Serge Ibaka.

 

2008's Redeem Team had LeBron, Kobe, Howard, Wade, Paul, Kidd, Bosh, Anthony. They only beat Spain by 11 in the medal game.

 

2012's team had LeBron, Durant, Kobe, Love, Paul, Westbrook, Anthony, Harden, and Chandler. They beat Spain by 7 in the medal game.

 

God forbid an injury to Davis, or his getting in foul trouble trying to bang with Marc Gasol, or Spain having a good Hi-Lo attack with the Gasols and Ibaka (who can shoot) means that we stand a good chance of losing a game we have NO business losing.

 

 

 

THE LONG HAUL:

 

If nothing else, theres the long term argument. Cousins and/or Drummond is likely going to be a big man that anchors future Olympic teams. Given how they'll need to rely on them in the future, not having them now could be stunting growth. Think about it. We can't start Mason Plumlee, even by the admission of the people defending him here. There are no other traditional bigs on the roster. The Select team is stocked with options like studs Miles Plumlee and Cody Zeller, the 6'9 Tobias Harris, and some thin 6'8 guys like Barnes and Draymond Green.

 

Right now, if Cousins AND Drummond are cut, then we've effectively put all of our eggs in the Davis basket. This is going to be his 2nd go round on a national team. The expiration of his rookie deal is coming up soon, and with a max deal on the table, he might not be feeling a third go-round with so much at stake if things aren't set in stone by the time the next events roll around.

 

 

 

IS THE GAME PASSING COACH K BY ANYWAY?

 

Maybe Coach K can't coach talent and now that we're past "Redeem Team" and players see Paul George getting hurt, they aren't as willing to be coaxed into international play. Being a recruiter, massaging egos, reassuring GMs, kissing butts, all of that is part of K's job description here though.

 

Last season, I felt like Rasheed Sulaimon was Duke's 2nd most talented player, with the first being Parker. I think it’s fair to say that Sulaimon was not up to his potential and that K didn’t have a good leash on him. That happens. But it also tells me that maybe the game is passing K by some as well.

 

Since a title in 2010, we’ve seen 2 upset exits in the early rounds (2014 & 2012), an Elite 8 blowout in a #1/#2 matchup with Louisville (2013), and a Sweet 16 blowout as a #1 to #5 Arizona (2010). Even including 2010’s title, you’ve got a first round loss to #11 VCU (2007), second round upset in a #2/#7 game with WVU (2008), a pasting by #3 seed Villanova in the Sweet 16 (2009). Not really the most ringing endorsement.

 

Coach K was a great coach in the 1990’s and 2000’s. The best in the game, and Duke’s records during that time reflects that. Since 2010, he’s been less than stellar. A national title when the best team in the field goes out, he has a Final Four game against a squad that pulled an upset to get there and loses their best player to injury early in the game, then a mid-major in the Finals. Not exactly Murder’s Row, but still a National Championship.

 

With each passing year, we’re seeing him further from his prime, and the results reflect as much. K was the perfect coach for 2008’s Redeem Team, but I’m really questioning whether he’s the best choice now.

 

Maybe he gave the Plumlee vote of confidence as a way to motivate Cousins and Drummond. With Durant pulling out so late in the game, I'm starting to wonder about whether K has a good read on the team. Ultimately, those turn into concerns about whether he is going to be able to hold this thing together if things get rougher.

 

With the way things have went down, fairly or unfairly, you know K is going to take a lot of blame if we lose. I think that type of blame is only magnified if we lose and have talent left at home so he's got one of his own "coachable" guys.

Man I ain't reading all that. Give me a Cliff notes version.

Man I ain't reading all that. Give me a Cliff notes version.

 

 

Not a UK/Duke thing, it's a "talent" and "nepotism" thing. I'd be fine with him taking Boozer 2-3 years ago or Jabari Parker now. Plumlee isn't talented and with no LeBron, Durant, Kobe, Love, George, etc., we need talent.

 

Spain has played us close in the past few years even when we've had the aforementioned talent. Spain is big and physical with the Gasols and Ibaka. My blood pressure would go through the roof if I had to watch the US lose what should be a very winnable game because Plumlee got abused inside. Even if we don't add Cousins or Drummond, I'd rather the spot go to Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, or someone not named Plumlee. Two Plumlees and Tyler Zeller being the future bigs on the Select Team aren't going to hack it.

 

Cousins isn't a team cancer, he has as many T's as Durant and Griffin. Even if he is somewhat malcontent, he or Drummond is probably the future for big men in International play, so if nothing else, we add value by playing them this year in that aspect. If K can't handle Cousins and doesn't have pulse on his teams to prepare for things like Durant leaving, I wonder if he's the best man for the job going forward. K was great in the 1990's and 2000's, but he's dipped noticeably since 2004. Although he was the perfect Olympic coach in 2008, I don't know if the game is passing him by or not. He seems to struggle with coaching talent that comes with some bumps (i.e., Sulaimon). I don't know if he's enough of a smoocher and coddler to relate to today's NBA star.

 

Right or wrong (on both his drop and/or the Plumlee argument), he's going to take a ton of criticism if Team USA loses regardless of whether or not he takes Plumlee. If he takes Plumlee, he's just bringing more of the second guessing that he'll potentially take squarely onto himself.

Man I ain't reading all that. Give me a Cliff notes version.

 

:lol2:

Word is Durant is pulling out now. That clears another spot for Cousins.

 

It is official:

 

“This was an extremely difficult decision as I take great pride in representing our country,” Durant said in a statement on Thursday. “I know that I owe it to my USA Basketball teammates to be totally invested in the experience. After going through training camp with USAB, I realized I could not fulfill my responsibilities to the team from both a time and energy standpoint.”I need to take a step back and take some time away, both mentally and physically in order to prepare for the upcoming NBA season. I will be rooting for USAB and look forward to future opportunities with them.”

Kentucky Sports Radio | University of Kentucky Basketball, Football, and Recruiting news brought to you in the most ridiculous manner possible.

Not a UK/Duke thing, it's a "talent" and "nepotism" thing. I'd be fine with him taking Boozer 2-3 years ago or Jabari Parker now. Plumlee isn't talented and with no LeBron, Durant, Kobe, Love, George, etc., we need talent.

 

Spain has played us close in the past few years even when we've had the aforementioned talent. Spain is big and physical with the Gasols and Ibaka. My blood pressure would go through the roof if I had to watch the US lose what should be a very winnable game because Plumlee got abused inside. Even if we don't add Cousins or Drummond, I'd rather the spot go to Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, or someone not named Plumlee. Two Plumlees and Tyler Zeller being the future bigs on the Select Team aren't going to hack it.

 

Cousins isn't a team cancer, he has as many T's as Durant and Griffin. Even if he is somewhat malcontent, he or Drummond is probably the future for big men in International play, so if nothing else, we add value by playing them this year in that aspect. If K can't handle Cousins and doesn't have pulse on his teams to prepare for things like Durant leaving, I wonder if he's the best man for the job going forward. K was great in the 1990's and 2000's, but he's dipped noticeably since 2004. Although he was the perfect Olympic coach in 2008, I don't know if the game is passing him by or not. He seems to struggle with coaching talent that comes with some bumps (i.e., Sulaimon). I don't know if he's enough of a smoocher and coddler to relate to today's NBA star.

 

Right or wrong (on both his drop and/or the Plumlee argument), he's going to take a ton of criticism if Team USA loses regardless of whether or not he takes Plumlee. If he takes Plumlee, he's just bringing more of the second guessing that he'll potentially take squarely onto himself.

 

 

What if he takes Plumlee and Cousins? Then what?

 

Did you watch the scrimmage last Friday?

What if he takes Plumlee and Cousins? Then what?

 

Did you watch the scrimmage last Friday?

 

 

82 games and what I've seen from Plumlee tells me enough. Maybe he killed it in the scrimmage and I'll watch the next one. If I can catch both, I will and I'll give you my honest assessment of how he played. No, I didn't originally watch them, but I had the Bar Exam last week, so I had good reason.

 

Regardless, I think I've seen enough through the course of the season to tell you that even if he takes Plumlee, Cousins, and Drummond, I'm still more than likely going to be firm in saying I'd rather see Plumlee's spot go to someone like Kawhi Leonard or someone who ended up being cut.

 

Plumlee wasn't even the best big man on his own team (Lopez), so it's hard to justify him making a 12 man FIBA roster (even if it is the top 30 after guys like LeBron, Durant, Kobe, and Love have opted out).

 

Looking at his complete stats, I know I probably haven't given Plumlee enough credit. Yes, he performed okay in an inter-squad scrimmage. He had 10 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 4/5 FGs, 2/5 from the line, had 4 fouls and committed a turnover in 11 minutes. 4 fouls in 11 minutes. That's being out-athletes to me. Cousins had 11 points, 11 boards, 2/4 FGs, 7/8 FTs, 2 TOs, 2 steals, and 1 personal in 25 minutes.

 

Regardless of that one game, we're still talking about Plumlee, a 2nd year pro, drafted 22nd, who only started 22 games for his own team. The team he played for was bad and he only started because of injury. He played 11 minutes per game in the playoffs for a bad Eastern Conference team. The Nets would have been at the middle or end of the lottery had they played in the West.

 

If he's a guy whose drafted by the Spurs or Lakers with the 22nd pick, then it's different, but I don't know many people that really think of Brooklyn as being a franchise that finds gems in the draft. Maybe NBA GMs, the Nets organization, and the rest of the nation besides fans of Coach K & Duke and/or people who hate Cousins because they perceive him to be what the media portrays him as because he's big, wears a headband, has tattoos, and gets technicals without really knowing what he's about think Plumlee is better.

 

Call me an armchair quarterback if you want, but I've seen enough of each player's game to tell you that Plumlee is far more replaceable than Cousins. I think you'd have a better argument if we had more bigs than a rail-thin Anthony Davis whose still learning his position, but it's not like Team USA needs a 12th man right now. They need someone who'll be more of an 8 or 9 at worst.

 

Who would you rather go into a game with in that role?

 

In the Heat series, Plumlee had 27 total minutes, shot 2/5 from the floor, scored 4 points, had 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 steal, 7 fouls, and 3 turnovers. That's a very, very disappointing game for Cousins. His worst game of the season by far (unless he was a DNP or injured early in the 1st half against the Rockets on 1/22) was on 3/28 vs OKC when he was playing with foul trouble and the game got out of hand quick so he was sat and rested. He still finished with 4 points, 4 boards, and 2 assists in 17 minutes. The margin was 15+ by the end of the 1st and a laugher by the 3rd, but he still totaled a 5 game playoff output from Plumlee. Even in the Rockets game where he went out early in the 1st with injury, he still beats basically all of Plumlee's numbers.

 

If you think I'm just nitpicking on Plumlee's numbers in the Heat series, look at the 7 game series they had with the Raptors. 18 points, 17 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 assist, 6 blocks, 2 steals, 6 turnovers, 17 fouls. If dude can't guard Patrick Patterson, Jonas Valanciunas, and Amir Johnson for 88 minutes without fouling 17 times, how in the hell do you expect him to guard the Gasols and Ibaka? Aside from the 17 fouls and 6 turnovers, that's a good night for Cousins.

 

Cousins had 22 and 17 in a healthy game against Memphis (1/17). That tells me he can bang with Z-Bo and Gasol (who each played 30+ mins. that night). Plumlee's combined total against Memphis in both games this year was 8 points, 8 boards, 0 blocks, 2 steals, 5 fouls and 2 TO's. That tells me he can't hang.

 

6'11, 235 pound Dukie gets pushed around underneath much easier than 6'11, 270 pounds of Big Cuz. Throw Drummond, throw Leonard, throw whoever in, but we have to be able to do better than Plumlee. We have 1 team we need to beat - Spain. If Cousins is going to be a problem otherwise, I don't care if they tell him going in that he won't see a minute until Spain if that's what it takes. I know that he won't back down from the Gasols and Ibaka like Plumlee will. International refs aren't giving teams Duke flops or Kentucky goal tends like the officials of the ACC and SEC respectively do. It's a going to be a man's game for the gold, so give me Cousins. #America

82 games and what I've seen from Plumlee tells me enough. Maybe he killed it in the scrimmage and I'll watch the next one. If I can catch both, I will and I'll give you my honest assessment of how he played. No, I didn't originally watch them, but I had the Bar Exam last week, so I had good reason.

 

Regardless, I think I've seen enough through the course of the season to tell you that even if he takes Plumlee, Cousins, and Drummond, I'm still more than likely going to be firm in saying I'd rather see Plumlee's spot go to someone like Kawhi Leonard or someone who ended up being cut.

 

Plumlee wasn't even the best big man on his own team (Lopez), so it's hard to justify him making a 12 man FIBA roster (even if it is the top 30 after guys like LeBron, Durant, Kobe, and Love have opted out).

 

Looking at his complete stats, I know I probably haven't given Plumlee enough credit. Yes, he performed okay in an inter-squad scrimmage. He had 10 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 4/5 FGs, 2/5 from the line, had 4 fouls and committed a turnover in 11 minutes. 4 fouls in 11 minutes. That's being out-athletes to me. Cousins had 11 points, 11 boards, 2/4 FGs, 7/8 FTs, 2 TOs, 2 steals, and 1 personal in 25 minutes.

 

Regardless of that one game, we're still talking about Plumlee, a 2nd year pro, drafted 22nd, who only started 22 games for his own team. The team he played for was bad and he only started because of injury. He played 11 minutes per game in the playoffs for a bad Eastern Conference team. The Nets would have been at the middle or end of the lottery had they played in the West.

 

If he's a guy whose drafted by the Spurs or Lakers with the 22nd pick, then it's different, but I don't know many people that really think of Brooklyn as being a franchise that finds gems in the draft. Maybe NBA GMs, the Nets organization, and the rest of the nation besides fans of Coach K & Duke and/or people who hate Cousins because they perceive him to be what the media portrays him as because he's big, wears a headband, has tattoos, and gets technicals without really knowing what he's about think Plumlee is better.

 

Call me an armchair quarterback if you want, but I've seen enough of each player's game to tell you that Plumlee is far more replaceable than Cousins. I think you'd have a better argument if we had more bigs than a rail-thin Anthony Davis whose still learning his position, but it's not like Team USA needs a 12th man right now. They need someone who'll be more of an 8 or 9 at worst.

 

Who would you rather go into a game with in that role?

 

In the Heat series, Plumlee had 27 total minutes, shot 2/5 from the floor, scored 4 points, had 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 1 steal, 7 fouls, and 3 turnovers. That's a very, very disappointing game for Cousins. His worst game of the season by far (unless he was a DNP or injured early in the 1st half against the Rockets on 1/22) was on 3/28 vs OKC when he was playing with foul trouble and the game got out of hand quick so he was sat and rested. He still finished with 4 points, 4 boards, and 2 assists in 17 minutes. The margin was 15+ by the end of the 1st and a laugher by the 3rd, but he still totaled a 5 game playoff output from Plumlee. Even in the Rockets game where he went out early in the 1st with injury, he still beats basically all of Plumlee's numbers.

 

If you think I'm just nitpicking on Plumlee's numbers in the Heat series, look at the 7 game series they had with the Raptors. 18 points, 17 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 assist, 6 blocks, 2 steals, 6 turnovers, 17 fouls. If dude can't guard Patrick Patterson, Jonas Valanciunas, and Amir Johnson for 88 minutes without fouling 17 times, how in the hell do you expect him to guard the Gasols and Ibaka? Aside from the 17 fouls and 6 turnovers, that's a good night for Cousins.

 

Cousins had 22 and 17 in a healthy game against Memphis (1/17). That tells me he can bang with Z-Bo and Gasol (who each played 30+ mins. that night). Plumlee's combined total against Memphis in both games this year was 8 points, 8 boards, 0 blocks, 2 steals, 5 fouls and 2 TO's. That tells me he can't hang.

 

6'11, 235 pound Dukie gets pushed around underneath much easier than 6'11, 270 pounds of Big Cuz. Throw Drummond, throw Leonard, throw whoever in, but we have to be able to do better than Plumlee. We have 1 team we need to beat - Spain. If Cousins is going to be a problem otherwise, I don't care if they tell him going in that he won't see a minute until Spain if that's what it takes. I know that he won't back down from the Gasols and Ibaka like Plumlee will. International refs aren't giving teams Duke flops or Kentucky goal tends like the officials of the ACC and SEC respectively do. It's a going to be a man's game for the gold, so give me Cousins. #America

 

 

So you haven't seen any Team USA practices or any of the scrimmage but that qualifies you to make decisions on who should and shouldn't be on the team? Gotcha.

 

#merica

Not trying to rain on this debate but I feel so distant from this. Am I the only one who doesn't really care who makes this team?

Not trying to rain on this debate but I feel so distant from this. Am I the only one who doesn't really care who makes this team?

 

When the teams strolled out last week for the scrimmage it just didn't feel right. Durant seemed like he fit on the squad. D-Rose to some degree. But everyone else just seemed out of place. A bunch of inexperience in international play.

It's a real shame Richie is in prison. He could have really helped out this team. :bag:

What if he takes Plumlee and Cousins? Then what?

 

Did you watch the scrimmage last Friday?

I did let's not act like plumlee points were on cousins and he had a 2 min span when the game was in a blow out got some hustle points. I give him credit for that . But he still only had 4 rebounds. A role playing big man needs to rebound . The point against cousins was they don't need a big man who can score. So plumlees points are irrelevant because we all know cousins is the more talented scorer. The fact Cousins was the best rebounder in the game proves even more he needs to be on the team.

Not trying to rain on this debate but I feel so distant from this. Am I the only one who doesn't really care who makes this team?

 

Less and less by the day. It definitely appears the players don't care about playing for their country this time around so I don't particularly care about any of them. We're sending a less-than-stellar team to the tournament so at some point it starts to look like Olympic soccer and I don't care.