April 22, 201412 yr It is not the 'government's land'. It is public land that is administered by a function of the Federal government. The government never condemned it and paid anyone for it. Given how we talk about the government being something different than the people I guess Mr. Lincoln would be disappointed. It seems that 'government of the people, by the people and for the people' has perished from this Earth. So what gives Mr. Bundy the right to use and deplete the "people's" land without compensating the "people" as required by law and multiple court decisions?
April 22, 201412 yr It's not overreach, they own the land, he refuses to pay grazing fees and after years of due process they removed his cattle. He is the one who refused to pay thereby being a free loader on the peoples assets which I thought conservatives hated. Let's not forget this has been going on for 20 years with multiple court decisions. Would they even care if Harry Reid's son didn't have a deal in place with a Chinese energy company to develop that land?
April 22, 201412 yr The BLM/EPA decided they needed to protect the Desert Tortoise and it's habitat. That habitat was on the land the Bundy's have been using since the late 1800's. Up to that point, Bundy and his family have paid their taxes and grazing fees. In the nineties, they revoked his grazing permit and what he "owes" the federal government are fees they've charged him for using land that his family has used for over a hundred years. It's another regulation that is designed to cripple ranchers and farmers, similar to what's happening to California farmers and irrigation procedures. You cannot expect people whose livelihood is dependent on using these lands to just happily go along.
April 22, 201412 yr Would they even care if Harry Reid's son didn't have a deal in place with a Chinese energy company to develop that land? That issue is a Red Herring, The US vs Bundy was originally decided in 1998. snopes.com: Harry Reid, Chinese Company Behind Nevada Ranch Standoff
April 22, 201412 yr All analogies are imperfect, but if I drive down the Watterson expressway at 75 mph, do I have the right to say that I don't recognize the authority of the police officer to give me a ticket? If I get the ticket one day, and the next day when I get pulled over again for the same offense I have a few hundred armed friends waiting for the police officer, what should happen? Everyone involved in the standoff with the BLM agents belongs in jail.
April 22, 201412 yr That's probably what King George thought about the pesky American colonists. There is a line in the musical 1776 where John Adams says "We must all hang together." Ben Franklin replies, "Or we'll all hang seperately." If these guys want to start an armed revolution, so be it. They need to be ready to accept the consequences. Otherwise, they need to work through the system established by our founding revolutionaries.
April 23, 201412 yr So what gives Mr. Bundy the right to use and deplete the "people's" land without compensating the "people" as required by law and multiple court decisions? Well, if the courts are the answer then everyone should go through the courts. Was there a court order granting BLM the right pay cattle rustler over $700,000 to confiscate, sell, and apparently now, indiscriminately slaughter Bundy's cattle? Apparently not. The BLM took property without authorization or due process. The case is amazingly similar to another long running issue between another rancher and the BLM that started in the late 1990s. And in 2004 the BLM did similiar actions - that were ruled...illegal. Sheriff Warns Hage of Possible Cattle Confiscation and Arrest Thursday, the U.S. Forest Service hand-delivered a three-day notice to Hage to remove livestock from the lands the U. S. Court of Federal Claims determined in its 2002 Final Decision and Finding of Fact to be “fee lands” to which Hage holds title. (“Fee” means the inheritable right to use.) Sheriff DeMeo commented on the governments actions, “It is inexplicable to me why, after thirteen years of litigation, the BLM and Forest Service seem so anxious to go after Hage now. But there definitely seems to be an intensity building in this county and I expect them to try something. I have instructed my deputies to protect Constitutional rights of the citizens of Nye County, even if the perpetrator is the federal government,” he added. Concerned about a Ruby Ridge-style government “arrest”, today, Hage forwarded a letter to Sheriff DeMeo stating that he believes the government’s efforts to create a “confrontation” with him is a move of desperation on the part of the agencies as a result evidence that surfaced at his trial in Reno in May. So it would seem history repeats. If you follow the government argument it claims it 'owned' the land after in was ceded by Mexico and before Nevada became a state. If that is the case then the argument could be made that the US government 'owns' all the land of Louisiana Purchase as well. Land rights (and associated water rights) are complicated. Even if my own neighborhood some people have the deeded responsibility to care for land they do not legally own. It is adjacent land that belongs to the 'residual farm' that is embedded in the neighborhood. Basically, to keep the farm owner from having to deal with these parcels they are attached to the deed for the lot they did purchase. People basically get a half acre or more as part of their deed but they still do not 'own' it. Was Bundy not abiding by court rulings? It seems very much so. But that did not give the BLM the authorization to take property without court action.
April 23, 201412 yr There is a line in the musical 1776 where John Adams says "We must all hang together." Ben Franklin replies, "Or we'll all hang seperately." If these guys want to start an armed revolution, so be it. They need to be ready to accept the consequences. Otherwise, they need to work through the system established by our founding revolutionaries. Unchecked power and tyranny can wear a crown or or it can wear a silk tie. They are still the same problem. How the power is checked is usually defined by the entity attempting to abuse it or expanding it. It was the BLM who positioned snipers atop of ridges first.
April 24, 201412 yr It's the governments land I guess they can do with it as they please. I'm sure you'd be A ok with it if the government was giving land for the use of a pipeline. This is 100% politics and it's silly. You have got to be kidding me! Who is this government you speak of?!? The BLM and Harry Reid or others like him do NOT have the right to do as they please with public land unless the majority don't give a flip or don't have the guts to stand up to them. Then there are some who will use and sometimes abuse their power any way they see fit. It is even worse with a pipeline. The government if given the opportunity can take private lands as well under eminent domain to further a project if they see fit and the state government does not prevent this. The battle over public lands is just a start!
April 25, 201412 yr Agreed! Bundy and those people who went to help him are un-American wacko terrorist bigots! How could anyone support a guy like Bundy is beyond me.
April 25, 201412 yr Agreed! Bundy and those people who went to help him are un-American wacko terrorist bigots! How could anyone support a guy like Bundy is beyond me. and you base this opinion on? Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
April 25, 201412 yr and you base this opinion on? Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runnerbase what on? He is a wacko, terrorist, bigot and un-American. How could anyone support him on anything is beyond me, they must be the same as him.
April 26, 201412 yr base what on? He is a wacko' date=' terrorist, bigot and un-American. How could anyone support him on anything is beyond me, they must be the same as him.[/quote'] Wow!!! All I can say.
April 26, 201412 yr base what on? He is a wacko' date=' terrorist, bigot and un-American. How could anyone support him on anything is beyond me, they must be the same as him.[/quote'] WOW. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
April 26, 201412 yr base what on? He is a wacko' date=' terrorist, bigot and un-American. How could anyone support him on anything is beyond me, they must be the same as him.[/quote'] WOW Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner Thought about deleting this but such well thought out and level headed wisdom deserves a double post on reaction.
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