February 21, 201412 yr Yeah, slavery and succeeding from the union over it isn't something states should be proud of...
February 21, 201412 yr Yeah, slavery and succeeding from the union over it isn't something states should be proud of... That was not the only reason for the succession. The Southern states were left out of the constitutional convention, and they were much less enthralled with the idea of a strong federal institution which stripped rights from states. This argument went back from the start. It was ironic, that the northern industries benefitted, being the industrialized part of the US, from the cheap cotton, which was owed in a a major part from cheap labor that was brought about by slavery. I grew up in the deep south and I am proud of it. I have lived in several regions of this US, the West, the Northeast, the South, the upper Midwest and Kentucky....they all have their warts! My family was not even in the US when there was slavery, so I don't feel I have to apologize for it as some whites do. I condemn it, of course, and it has absolutely no place in humanity. But I will also say, that this culture was not peculiar to the US South, it is a tragedy that has existed through the ages, and it was particularly prevalent in Africa, the middle east and Europe well before there was a USA and hopefully will be completely abolished as it still exists in some forms in parts of the world.
February 21, 201412 yr For those of you, like theguru, who feel this is the government overstepping their bounds, or shoving religion down your throats, I have a couple of questions. If there was only one plate available, then I would better understand your argument that you shouldn't be forced to have In God We Trust on your plate. I counted 123 different license plates offered by our commonwealth at this time. We have a variety of choices, and are free to pick the one we want to sport on our vehicles, trailers, motorcycles, RVs, etc. Considering that, I don't understand how having that one plate avaialble to those who want to choose it is infringing upon you or having anything shoved down your throat. Maybe I am not fully understanding your position. As a UK fan and a graduate of EKU, would I be justified in feeling the UofL license plate is being shoved down my throat? Or worse yet, the private colleges like UPike? Do the PETA members feel oppressed by the League of Kentucky Sportsman plate? etc.
February 21, 201412 yr As has been mentioned there was more to the Civil War than slavery vs. non-slavery. Even knowing this it still bothers me to see a Confederate Flag because I genuinely believe the majority of people display it for racial reasons. My guess is not every person owned a slave or fully felt it was right when representing the Confederacy, and sadly those people's main form of representation to this day via their ancestors is a perceived racist image. I wish another symbol could be generated for those people.
February 21, 201412 yr For those of you, like theguru, who feel this is the government overstepping their bounds, or shoving religion down your throats, I have a couple of questions. If there was only one plate available, then I would better understand your argument that you shouldn't be forced to have In God We Trust on your plate. I counted 123 different license plates offered by our commonwealth at this time. We have a variety of choices, and are free to pick the one we want to sport on our vehicles, trailers, motorcycles, RVs, etc. Considering that, I don't understand how having that one plate avaialble to those who want to choose it is infringing upon you or having anything shoved down your throat. Maybe I am not fully understanding your position. As a UK fan and a graduate of EKU, would I be justified in feeling the UofL license plate is being shoved down my throat? Or worse yet, the private colleges like UPike? Do the PETA members feel oppressed by the League of Kentucky Sportsman plate? etc. I would have to research it 2C but what I am talking about is the sticker that comes on a standard plate. You have two choices, one deals with God and the other gambling in my opinion but everyone should read this link about unbridled spirit: Kentucky.gov Kentucky Unbridled Spirit In short on the above link always replace the words unbridled spirit with in god we trust and you understand what KY is doing with our license plates. It is indoctrination.
February 21, 201412 yr I hate to wade into this topic today, but the cause of the Southern states was explicitly the cause of slavery. I think modern attempts to cast noble innocence on the Confederacy is disinformation. I agree with doomer that slavery, oppression, and racism were not and are not peculiar to the Confederate states, but they did fight for it, explicitly, and their flag is symbolic of that. To wave it around today and proclaim it doesn't carry that symbolism is untenable and I don't know why good-natured people so adamantly defend it as something else. Proclaimed the vice-President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, speaking in Georgia, as it were: Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. The president of the Confederacy put it differently: The condition of slavery with us is, in a word, Mr. President, nothing but the form of civil government instituted for a class of people not fit to govern themselves. It is exactly what in every State exists in some form or other. It is just that kind of control which is extended in every northern State over its convicts, its lunatics, its minors, its apprentices. It is but a form of civil government for those who by their nature are not fit to govern themselves. We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority.
February 21, 201412 yr I hate to wade into this topic today, but the cause of the Southern states was explicitly the cause of slavery. I think modern attempts to cast noble innocence on the Confederacy is disinformation. I agree with doomer that slavery, oppression, and racism were not and are not peculiar to the Confederate states, but they did fight for it, explicitly, and their flag is symbolic of that. To wave it around today and proclaim it doesn't carry that symbolism is untenable and I don't know why good-natured people so adamantly defend it as something else. Proclaimed the vice-President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens, speaking in Georgia, as it were: Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. The president of the Confederacy put it differently: The condition of slavery with us is, in a word, Mr. President, nothing but the form of civil government instituted for a class of people not fit to govern themselves. It is exactly what in every State exists in some form or other. It is just that kind of control which is extended in every northern State over its convicts, its lunatics, its minors, its apprentices. It is but a form of civil government for those who by their nature are not fit to govern themselves. We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority. I agree with everything you have said. To the bolded, my guess is it is something about ancestral preservation and not wanting to pretend someone's lineage began during reconstruction? I really do not know. As I said, I wish some other type of symbol could be displayed for fallen ancestors of the Confederate States if that is how those people really feel. I am not sure how young men were selected to serve at the time, but my guess is a lot of innocent people just joined in on the action because it was their duty. Not really standing for slavery, but having to go to war for because of where they lived. Not sure if that makes any sense. Had the rebel flag gone away right after the war I think we would have a different view of it today. But it became the rallying symbol through the Civil Rights era and still displayed prevalently to this day.
February 21, 201412 yr I would have to research it 2C but what I am talking about is the sticker that comes on a standard plate. You have two choices, one deals with God and the other gambling in my opinion but everyone should read this link about unbridled spirit: Kentucky.gov Kentucky Unbridled Spirit In short on the above link always replace the words unbridled spirit with in god we trust and you understand what KY is doing with our license plates. It is indoctrination. You are going to have to explain it to me, I am missing your point. Here is a link to all the plates available. MVL.ky.gov - License Plates There are 2 basic (free) plates for vehicles, the Unbridled Spirit, and the In God We Trust. You can pick which one you want. There are also another 100 or so vehicle plates that you can choose that support various other causes, schools, etc. Where is the indoctrination?
February 21, 201412 yr You are going to have to explain it to me, I am missing your point. Here is a link to all the plates available. MVL.ky.gov - License Plates There are 2 basic (free) plates for vehicles, the Unbridled Spirit, and the In God We Trust. You can pick which one you want. There are also another 100 or so vehicle plates that you can choose that support various other causes, schools, etc. Where is the indoctrination? Exactly, there are two free plates, you either get God or get Gambling, otherwise you pay. Although is doesn't tickle me pink I am okay with a paid vanity plate that endorses God/religion. What I am not okay with is God being one of the two free choices we are stuck with.
February 21, 201412 yr I guess I am missing the gambling connection. How many years has the Unbridled Spirit been our only choice? I have no idea.
February 21, 201412 yr I guess I am missing the gambling connection. How many years has the Unbridled Spirit been our only choice? I have no idea. I don't think it is a Godfather connection. :deadhorse:
February 21, 201412 yr The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion... Doesn't say that the Government was to ignore God, just says they aren't to dictate any particular religion or infringe on anyone exercising their religion. The National Motto of the US is "In God We Trust" so having it on the license plate as you despise is no different than it being on money or the President placing his hand on a Bible to be sworn into office. Exactly! That is what I've been preaching (pardon the pun) in every thread about this topic. God is not a religion and the seperation of state and church has nothing to do with the belief in God or not yet too many people miss understand that.
February 21, 201412 yr Its a license plate, why do we care, so many bigger fish to fry. Why do we always have to be up in arms over something.
February 21, 201412 yr Its a license plate, why do we care, so many bigger fish to fry. Why do we always have to be up in arms over something. Small problems become big problems when you don't address them.
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