January 30, 201412 yr I have always disagreed with the "Tubby won with Rick's players" argument because I think that bunch responded to Tubby better than they did Rick. But the argument, in and of itself, is not one without merit. There are non-racist people who really believe that Tubby won with Rick's players, just as there are those who believe that & are racist. Of course there are racists in UK's fan base, but I think with the overwhelming majority of people, it had to do with Tubby not winning to the level we desire. My point is if a white coach had won the 98 Championship you wouldn't hear "That was Rick's team" argument.
January 30, 201412 yr I'll add that Tubby became very unpopular by playing his mediocre son at the point guard spot. Just like Eddie Sutton was scrutinized for playing Sean, which if memory serves me right, prevented us from getting a better PG in Elliott Perry.
January 30, 201412 yr My point is if a white coach had won the 98 Championship you wouldn't hear "That was Rick's team" argument. If the white coach duplicated the remainder of Tubby's resume, I wholeheartedly believe you would hear the very same thing.
January 30, 201412 yr The 23,000 are cheering for a basketball team. Not individuals. How many of the 23,000 would let their daughters date one of the black players? I would say the percentage is close to the same as U of L fans or any other college in Ky.
January 30, 201412 yr The 23,000 are cheering for a basketball team. Not individuals. How many of the 23,000 would let their daughters date one of the black players? So the John Wall Dance phenomenon was about the team? And people with the single eyebrow was about the team?
January 30, 201412 yr I'll add that Tubby became very unpopular by playing his mediocre son at the point guard spot. Just like Eddie Sutton was scrutinized for playing Sean, which if memory serves me right, prevented us from getting a better PG in Elliott Perry. Saul was average. He was no where close to as bad as most UK fans say he was.
January 30, 201412 yr Saul was average. He was no where close to as bad as most UK fans say he was. I'd take Hickey over him, right PP92? haha!
January 30, 201412 yr Saul was average. He was no where close to as bad as most UK fans say he was. Saul put it all out there & never gave anything less than 100% effort. But he had limitations that we all recognized & a lot of fans thought the team could get an upgrade at that spot. But being the coach's son, as white guy Eddie Sutton learned, magnifies that problem tremendously.
January 30, 201412 yr Saul put it all out there & never gave anything less than 100% effort. But he had limitations that we all recognized & a lot of fans thought the team could get an upgrade at that spot. But being the coach's son, as white guy Eddie Sutton learned, magnifies that problem tremendously. He was the backup PG his 1st two seasons behind Turner, and averaged roughly 12-14 minutes a game. His junior year, he was the only real PG on the roster. His senior year was Cliff Hawkins 1st season. Hawkins would've played more than he did (roughly 10 minutes a game I believe), had it not been for his asthma problems. Sure he had his limitations, but as the backup to Turner, and the stop-gap for Hawkins, I'm not sure what he did that was so terrible. He took care of the ball reasonably well, and didn't go out there looking to shoot 15 times a night.
January 30, 201412 yr If the white coach duplicated the remainder of Tubby's resume, I wholeheartedly believe you would hear the very same thing. I agree. Tubby was also such a diametrically different coach it threw the (racist, I guess) fan base for a loop. It was a foregone conclusion Tubby was coming to UK well before Rick announced he was leaving. I remember Georgia fans at the SEC tournament already acknowledging that would be his next destination at whatever point that may be. Many were under the impression that since Tubby coached under Pitino, it would be reflective of a run-and-gun, full court pressure, firing away three pointers type system. It was all about ball line defense and rebounding with Tubby. If Rick was driving a Lamborghini at UK, Tubby was driving a Prius. Both can get you to a destination, one with a lot less flare.
January 30, 201412 yr He was the backup PG his 1st two seasons behind Turner, and averaged roughly 12-14 minutes a game. His junior year, he was the only real PG on the roster. His senior year was Cliff Hawkins 1st season. Hawkins would've played more than he did (roughly 10 minutes a game I believe), had it not been for his asthma problems. Sure he had his limitations, but as the backup to Turner, and the stop-gap for Hawkins, I'm not sure what he did that was so terrible. He took care of the ball reasonably well, and didn't go out there looking to shoot 15 times a night. I think fans thought Tubby could have been more aggressive in finding a PG more capable of being a 25-30 mpg kind of player. At UK Saul was a really good backup point guard & not a starter. Again, though, my overall point is that this--and not race--soured people on Tubby.
January 30, 201412 yr I think fans thought Tubby could have been more aggressive in finding a PG more capable of being a 25-30 mpg kind of player. At UK Saul was a really good backup point guard & not a starter. Again, though, my overall point is that this--and not race--soured people on Tubby. You can't tell me race didn't play a factor when I would overhear people say things like, "I can't wait until next year when we finally get rid of this boy, and hire a good young white coach like Billy D." Or how about things like, "Those negros are fine as players and assistants, but they ain't got the smarts to be in charge of a program like Kentucky" Nope, nothing at all racist about that....:ohbrother: :banghead:
January 30, 201412 yr I think fans thought Tubby could have been more aggressive in finding a PG more capable of being a 25-30 mpg kind of player. At UK Saul was a really good backup point guard & not a starter. Again, though, my overall point is that this--and not race--soured people on Tubby. People were saying Tubby won with Rick's team right after the championship. They had no excuse to sour on Tubby, other than he was black.
January 30, 201412 yr Tubby was also such a diametrically different coach Good point. I never liked that argument (Tubby's style of play is boring), but fans certainly enjoyed the frenetic pace Rick utilized. Tubby's approach was very different, but it worked. For a while at least.
January 30, 201412 yr So the John Wall Dance phenomenon was about the team? And people with the single eyebrow was about the team? All being part of the University of Kentucky basketball team. Like I asked before, how many would have let either date their daughter?
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